I understand the need to test PvP though, without pretty much disabling your character as it is now, so I guess this is a case of a Rock and a Hard Place.
I think I am going to stay very far away from Rotters Hole. Which is probably something that people should learn anyway: to avoid certain places. :)
Btw, love the name too. ;)
Rotter's Hole is a cool name, but before the wipe, you will not find me there.
I will take little or no part in what amounts to Arena Style PVP. If I choose to play a low rep toon, I will do all of my killing in the wilderness and my socializing in Rotter's Hole.
Aw, why? I'll protect you if you want to go during alpha. No need to be afraid. I want to see the pvp in action truthfully.
Have some fun.
Goblin Squad Member
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Aw, why? I'll protect you if you want to go during alpha. No need to be afraid. I want to see the pvp in action truthfully.
Have some fun.
PVP truthfully in action, in an open world PVP mmo, is not in an arena where all participants are prepared for it and where there are no risks or rewards.
Arenas are for training skill combinations and recording things like DPS, etc. They are not the place for true PVP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I didn't get the impression that Rotter's Hole would be an arena. It seemed more to me like a place where low reputation characters can wait out the regeneration of their reputation. If the reputation system is still as draconian as it was in Alpha 7, that will include plenty of PVE-oriented characters who just happened to fire off an AoE at the wrong moment.
I agree that there's a difference between random ganking, E-sports arena PVP and meaningful interaction through PVP. Let's see whether Alpha 8 has any of the tools for meaningful PVP (primarily PC loot drops) before writing off Rotter's Hole as an arena.
Aw, why? I'll protect you if you want to go during alpha. No need to be afraid. I want to see the pvp in action truthfully.
Have some fun.
PVP truthfully in action, in an open world PVP mmo, is not in an arena where all participants are prepared for it and where there are no risks or rewards.
Arenas are for training skill combinations and recording things like DPS, etc. They are not the place for true PVP.
Well, you can still gank people and go there if you can train there.
I agree that it's not going to show you what it will be like; however, being able to test what works even against 'ready' people is welcome to me. Or, even go there on your gatherer and test getting away.
I don't know who has had experience pvp-ing and who hasn't, but I want to see it exactly. The only thing I've seen is some messing around with friends.
Even tho meta says dps is the most important, I feel the most important is what works for each person. I want to see how it goes. I am positive I'll try. It's kind of like... practicing shooting shots in basketball. It's not a real game, but you can still get a feel for the court and your skills.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Tier 1? He said low rep settlements could not train above tier 2Oops, I thought they would be no better than NPC towns. Sorry.
If they are no better then NPC towns, then there would be no point in having them.
Granted, with the way things have changed from blog 1 till now about PVP... You could be correct.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If they are no better then NPC towns, then there would be no point in having them.
We've already seen that NPC towns won't let you train if your rep is too low, so in that respect, they may have an advantage. Also, whether or not you can train, your skills degrade if you aren't supported. Having a place that will take you at least lets you keep using what they support, whether they let you train it more or not. It would keep you functional until you can improve your rep enough to train.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If they are no better then NPC towns, then there would be no point in having them.We've already seen that NPC towns won't let you train if your rep is too low, so in that respect, they may have an advantage. Also, whether or not you can train, your skills degrade if you aren't supported. Having a place that will take you at least lets you keep using what they support, whether they let you train it more or not. It would keep you functional until you can improve your rep enough to train.
Your skills do not degrade, you will always have them.
PC settlements support high end skills, if you cannot use them as a low rep character then there is no point. May as well stay part of an NPC settlement.
If you are going to play that way, which GW has said they expect to be in game, then you have no need for a low rep settlement once you have trained the skills you will be allowed to use.
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Goblin Squad Member
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May as well stay part of an NPC settlement.
If your Rep is so low you can't enter the NPC Settlement, it seems--to me--as if making another Settlement your home might allow some additional flexibility. If nothing else, you might want a tavern to hang out in to regain Power, or a market to buy Consumables and sell your spoils.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that a lower (not low) rep town should have limitations form the top on down on training.
Remember: 1000 is starting noob rep
I would not consider 0 - -2499 to be exceptionally low, and should only bar training levels 20 - 19.
Then from -2500 - -3499 = No training 18 - 15.
Then from -3500 to -4499 = No training from 14 to 10
-4500 to - -5499 = No training from 9 to 6
-5500 to - 6499 = No training from 5 to 3
-6500 to -7500 = No Training above 2
Or something like this, something with a sliding scale or reputation to training.
However, this is all moot if GW adds more Rep neutral ways to PVP, or if the current WoT system of entire hexes turning FFA during the PVP windows stays in place.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Your skills do not degrade, you will always have them.
PC settlements support high end skills, if you cannot use them as a low rep character then there is no point. May as well stay part of an NPC settlement.
If you are going to play that way, which GW has said they expect to be in game, then you have no need for a low rep settlement once you have trained the skills you will be allowed to use.
Your ability to use some of your skills degrades temporarily, after a long time, if you don't belong to a settlement that supports them. If your settlement "controllers" let you stay, you may not need to enter the phsyical settlement to get that support. I'm not clear on that. If they turf you, you've got a month to find someone that will take you. If your rep is truly awful, but the character is worth keeping, you'll need to find a new support structure. NPC settlements (as we've experienced them) won't accept the worst of the worst. It's possible (still not completely clarified) that if your settlement has turfed you, and your rep is awful, you may need to turn to a place like Rotter's Hole in order to retain some of your capabilities until things turn around for you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I guess you are missing what I am saying, sorry for not being clear.
Entering a settlement is not required if you cannot use skills above a certain point. Once they are trained, why does it matter?
Doing everything to maintain a settlement is not required if you cannot train above a certain point, Tier 1 is what I am talking about, when being part of an NPC settlement supports it. (being a part of the settlement does not require you to enter it)
Alts and campfires take care of the rest.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that a lower (not low) rep town should have limitations form the top on down on training.
Remember: 1000 is starting noob rep
I would not consider 0 - -2499 to be exceptionally low, and should only bar training levels 20 - 19.
Then from -2500 - -3499 = No training 18 - 15.
Then from -3500 to -4499 = No training from 14 to 10
-4500 to - -5499 = No training from 9 to 6
-5500 to - 6499 = No training from 5 to 3
-6500 to -7500 = No Training above 2
Or something like this, something with a sliding scale or reputation to training.
However, this is all moot if GW adds more Rep neutral ways to PVP, or if the current WoT system of entire hexes turning FFA during the PVP windows stays in place.
I see a scale like that as reasonable.
Unless they drastically let up on the average penalties.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I guess you are missing what I am saying, sorry for not being clear.
Entering a settlement is not required if you cannot use skills above a certain point. Once they are trained, why does it matter?
Doing everything to maintain a settlement is not required if you cannot train above a certain point, Tier 1 is what I am talking about, when being part of an NPC settlement supports it. (being a part of the settlement does not require you to enter it)
Alts and campfires take care of the rest.
If the low rep settlement is a crafter one .. it will have an auction house to fence your illgotten goods and a place to stash your treasure.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Everyone will be a part of a settlement, the organization. Whether PC or NPC. They will support skills to a certain point.
If low rep PC settlements (the territory) do not support anything better than NPC settlements (the organization, then there is no point... since you will always be a part of a settlement (the organization).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Alts will take care of that.Ryan's said that trading with low-Rep folks will hurt your Rep. How exhausting will it become to have to create a series of throwaway alts because you're burning through the alt's Rep by using her?
I'll believe that when I see breathing room to consider scheduling the code work for it. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Alts will take care of that.Ryan's said that trading with low-Rep folks will hurt your Rep. How exhausting will it become to have to create a series of throwaway alts because you're burning through the alt's Rep by using her?
Did he? Interesting.
My EVE station trade alt has made some serious windfalls from region wide margin traded very low buys when some ganker just dumps his loot to the local market.
Thats probably exactly the sort of thing they are trying to limit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Alts will take care of that.Ryan's said that trading with low-Rep folks will hurt your Rep. How exhausting will it become to have to create a series of throwaway alts because you're burning through the alt's Rep by using her?Did he? Interesting.
My EVE station trade alt has made some serious windfalls from region wide margin traded very low buys when some ganker just dumps his loot to the local market.
Thats probably exactly the sort of thing they are trying to limit.
Oh, that will work fine. You get it from the market, and that should not effect the buyer. I believe he is referring to trading from character to character.
@Jazz - Wouldnt be exhausting at all. It doesnt take that long to make a character that you do not intend do be anything more then be a mule. Also the rep loss would be small, which means gaining it back will take no time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thats probably exactly the sort of thing they are trying to limit.
I've no way to know for sure, but Ryan's made a series of comments about intending some things in PFO to "correct"--perhaps "modify"?--perceived excesses in EVE's "anything goes" design.
I believe he is referring to trading from character to character.
Correct, I should've been clearer. He was referencing hand-to-hand transfers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Alts will take care of that.Ryan's said that trading with low-Rep folks will hurt your Rep. How exhausting will it become to have to create a series of throwaway alts because you're burning through the alt's Rep by using her?
There are plenty of ways around that, and not just through using throw away alts.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well with Rotter's Hole some 20 hexes from Thornkeep, it will be interesting to see how effective or "used" the low rep lifestyle is. There are closer "towns" than Thornkeep, but they will likely be used by people looking/ready for bad guys. Or completely naive players. :)
What map are you referring to? Was it said how far Rotter's Hole is?
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Goblin Squad Member
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If it is just a mule to transfer things, couldn't you just "reroll" it everytime it's "low rep" disease got to the contagious point?
Which is why I'd prefer that we not be allowed to reroll. One character per current subscription in place (or three characters - some fixed number). If you're using traded training time, you can run existing characters, but can't create new ones. For trial accounts, whenever we see those, require a new download of the client for each trial character; add enough bloat into the trial software that it takes some time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There are plenty of ways around that, and not just through using throw away alts.
Ryan's said that trading with low-Rep folks will hurt your Rep. How exhausting will it become to have to create a series of throwaway alts because you're burning through the alt's Rep by using her?
If "plenty of ways around" involve social engineering to create a network of allies and high-rep trading partners to fence your stolen goods for you, then awesome, good work, game functioning as intended.
If "plenty of ways around" involve finding loopholes in the game mechanics to circumvent the clear intention of the system, then boo, you should feel ashamed.