Getting right to it, I was just wondering if Ulfen Guard levels stack with Barbarian levels for the purpose of qualifying for Rage Powers that aren't gained through the Guard Dedication. This would occur if I wanted to take say, Greater Beast Totem either through the Extra Rage Power feat or by taking more Barbarian levels and I had less than 10 Barbarian levels but my combined Barbarian and Ulfen Guard levels were at least 10. I ask because I have a PFS character that will be wanting to take a few rage powers that have level requirements, and I may want to spend my dedications on other things. Relevant text is here, from the Rage Power dedication:
Quote: Rage Power (Ex) The Ulfen Guard can select a barbarian rage power for which she qualifies, adding her Ulfen Guard level to her barbarian level to determine access. This guard dedication can be chosen up to three times. and the Rage ability:
Quote: An Ulfen Guard is trained to harness her brutish nature while in combat in the defense of her charge. This works as the barbarian ability of the same name. An Ulfen Guard's class levels stack with any other classes granting this ability for determining the effects of rage powers and the number of rounds per day the guard can rage. I hope the wording wasn't too convoluted there, and if you got this far, thanks for your time. It basically comes down to whether or not level based requirements are considered to be "effects of rage powers" or if the rage power dedication's stacking language applies to powers other than the one taken through the dedication.
Morgrym Hammerbeard wrote: I hope the wording wasn't too convoluted there, and if you got this far, thanks for your time. It basically comes down to whether or not level based requirements are considered to be "effects of rage powers" or if the rage power dedication's stacking language applies to powers other than the one taken through the dedication. Probably not what you want to hear, but the phrasing means that while your class levels stack for the effectiveness they do not for availability. The dedication is the exception to this. So if you were to gain another rage power trough other means (feats, actual barbarian, Viking or skald levels), the 2 classes don't stack.
Diekssus wrote: Morgrym Hammerbeard wrote: I hope the wording wasn't too convoluted there, and if you got this far, thanks for your time. It basically comes down to whether or not level based requirements are considered to be "effects of rage powers" or if the rage power dedication's stacking language applies to powers other than the one taken through the dedication. Probably not what you want to hear, but the phrasing means that while your class levels stack for the effectiveness they do not for availability. The dedication is the exception to this. So if you were to gain another rage power trough other means (feats, actual barbarian, Viking or skald levels), the 2 classes don't stack. Yeah, I thought it might work like that, though I was really hoping I was wrong. It's a shame, I would have liked to be able to get some of the cooler dedications, but if it really works like this then I'm pretty much stuck taking Greater Rage, Alert Guardian, and Rage Power twice so I can get pounce which means I'll probably never be able to take any of the cool but weaker options in PFS. But I guess if they wanted it to stack for other powers they probably would have phrased it more like Formal Training.
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So why doesn't the phrase "adding her Ulfen Guard level to her barbarian level to determine access" apply for access to level based rage powers?
David knott 242 wrote: So why doesn't the phrase "adding her Ulfen Guard level to her barbarian level to determine access" apply for access to level based rage powers?
It does, I'm just not sure it applies to rage powers other than the one being taken through the guard dedication. The way it's worded seems to imply that it only works for that one, though I'm not completely sure about that.
David knott 242 wrote: So why doesn't the phrase "adding her Ulfen Guard level to her barbarian level to determine access" apply for access to level based rage powers?
That only applies to those powers gained through dedications, of which there are a limited number. It doesn't affect rage powers granted by other means, such as the Extra Rage Power feat.
If it were a home game I'd suggest asking the GM for a custom Extra Dedications feat, but PFS so...
Gabe Spurgeon wrote: Yeah, I thought it might work like that, though I was really hoping I was wrong. It's a shame, I would have liked to be able to get some of the cooler dedications, but if it really works like this then I'm pretty much stuck taking Greater Rage, Alert Guardian, and Rage Power twice so I can get pounce which means I'll probably never be able to take any of the cool but weaker options in PFS. But I guess if they wanted it to stack for other powers they probably would have phrased it more like Formal Training. Which is why I never have a barbarian (except to dip 2 levels) Ulfen guard, always Viking, Because of the nice synergy with formal training. I agree that it is odd that one was phrased like that and the other isn't, However, Considering they were written up at the same time we can only assume that it is most certainly intentional.
dragonhunterq wrote: David knott 242 wrote: So why doesn't the phrase "adding her Ulfen Guard level to her barbarian level to determine access" apply for access to level based rage powers?
That only applies to those powers gained through dedications, of which there are a limited number. It doesn't affect rage powers granted by other means, such as the Extra Rage Power feat.
If it were a home game I'd suggest asking the GM for a custom Extra Dedications feat, but PFS so... Yeah, unfortunately the only home games I'm in stick to the main hardcover books, and PFS is of course too rigid for that. If it were a home game, I'd probably just houserule it so that levels stack for all rage powers, but unfortunately that's not an option.
Reviving this thread with another (mostly unrelated) Ulfen Guard question.
Would taking the 'Rage power' Guard dedication qualify a character for taking the extra rage power feat? I'd like to know if this is legal for PFS play.
Similar questions can come up with discovery- and channeling-related feats. If some kind of blanket answer exists, that would of course be much appreciated as well.
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