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Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.
Combat while Mounted: With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action. When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack.
Fighting while Mounted
Fight with a combat-trained mount DC 10Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.
And under Cavalier
A cavalier's bond with his mount is strong, with the pair learning to anticipate each other's moods and moves.On first read, these rules seem pretty simple, but they become a little more susceptible to interpretation when actually in play. My wife has just begun playing a Cavalier for the first time, and after two games, questions are already coming up. Her character is a gnome, and she has a wolf as a mount. First, can a mount take a five foot step? One of our other party members has a companion animal of the same size that can, but it has been indicated that the mount cannot do the same.
Second, we need some clarification as to how sharing the same initiative as the mount will affect actions/movement. The way we read the rules were that the cavalier and mount would essentially be acting at the same time, within the same 6 second period. If that is the case it would be possible for the mount to attack once and then the rider guides the mount to move back from a foe that is directly in front of the rider/mount as the round’s movement so that the rider can attack with a lance. Or another scenario would be: the rider attacks with a sword, the mount attacks, and then the mount is guided to move. If the...
Making your mount move in combat, even a 5ft step, is just a DC5 Handle Animal check. Mounted characters generally roll one initiative; since the mount is an extension of yourself. Everything else you've described is correct.
With mounts, the animal does what you tell it to, when you tell it to. It is otherwise on delay. If your GM wants to be a jerk about it, just delay until the second initiative. It could even be to your benefit at times to roll seperate. Flat-footed drops once your initiative comes up, which allows you to use Mounted Combat if something attacks your horse. It could also keep your mount from getting a shiv in the kidney if it goes before you since it wouldn't be flat-footed after its initiative, but before yours. I've played with a multitude of GM's and my mount was attacked twice in 30+ games...
First, can a mount take a five foot step? One of our other party members has a companion animal of the same size that can, but it has been indicated that the mount cannot do the same.
Indicated where? I've never heard this before, so I'd need to understand what rule is being applied here.
Any creature can take a 5-foot-step if it's not in difficult terrain. Having someone on your back doesn't change that.
If that is the case it would be possible for the mount to attack once and then the rider guides the mount to move back from a foe that is directly in front of the rider/mount as the round’s movement so that the rider can attack with a lance. Or another scenario would be: the rider attacks with a sword, the mount attacks, and then the mount is guided to move.
(excised for space)
The GM said this was not possible because the rider would have to tell the horse to move on the rider’s turn and then wait for the horse to move on its turn. This would mean the rider could not attack with the lance until the rider’s next turn. It’s being treated more like two player characters who are acting at the same initiative roll one after another.
For the first scenario, if the GM rules it this way, all you need to do is this:
1) The rider takes a free action to the direct the mount, then readies an action to attack after the mount takes its action.2) The mount takes its action.
3) The rider's readied action is triggered, and the rider takes his attack.
For the second scenario ("the rider attacks with a sword, the mount attacks, and then the mount is guided to move"), there is nothing you need to do here. What is happening is this:
1) The rider attacks.
2) The rider orders his mount, "Attack, then move over there."
3) The mount follows the riders orders, makes an attack, and then moves.
If I'm reading the situation correctly, it sounds like your GM is saying that every single part of the mount's action must be directed by a separate action on the part of the rider, so "move over there and attack" must be done on two separate turns:
Turn 1 (rider): rider directs the mount to move
Turn 1 (mount): mount moves
Turn 2 (rider): rider directs the mount to attack
Turn 2 (mount): mount attacks
It also sounds like he's not making the same ruling for the other animal companion. You might ask him if the difference is that the cavalier is mounted (thus making it a mounted combat ruling) or if he's treating the cavalier's mount differently from the other animal companion for some other reason (he thinks mounts aren't as smart as druid's companions, or he's using the "purchased animal" rules instead of the "class feature companion" rules).
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The GM said this was not possible because the rider would have to tell the horse to move on the rider’s turn and then wait for the horse to move on its turn. This would mean the rider could not attack with the lance until the rider’s next turn. It’s being treated more like two player characters who are acting at the same initiative roll one after another.
This is incorrect. Mount and Rider act on the same initiative, as spelled out in the rules you quoted. In fact, the mount and rider have to be acting on the same initiative count and acting in concert; see this FAQ denoting that the rider and mount both charge simultaneously, and note the rules in the Mounted Combat section of the Combat chapter which specifically state that the reason a rider cannot make more than one melee attack in a turn where his mount moves is because he has to wait for the mount to get there. Note that that also precludes your wife's cavalier from full attacking in a round where her mount takes more than a 5 foot step.
Which leads into your other question:
Yes, mounts are capable of taking five foot steps.
Worth looking at (though not definitive rules sources) are these links to the 3.5 Rules of the Game articles describing how mounted combat works. These follow the same interpretations of the mounted combat rules that have been supported by the Paizo devs elsewhere.
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I have no problem with it. I think the unwritten intent (based on the 3.5 articles on the subject) is that you aren't supposed to be able to. Since your mount and you are acting in the same 6 seconds your total span of actions should all be things that can happen together. So, if your mount is moving, you can take a non-movement move action during that time, and then your standard action should be marking the end of the turn (barring swift actions). If your mount is capable of doing something during that same block of virtual time, it's gravy, but if the total action economy requires more than you could normally do in 6 seconds (like taking a move, a standard, and then another move, presumably something like 8-9 seconds worth of actions) it's a no no. That's the intent.
That being said, there's no printed rules supporting that, and mounted combat is already a bit of a cluster. Since the mounted charge action now requires full round actions from both mount and rider and mounted combat is already so situational, I wouldn't have a problem with a mount moving, the rider making his one non-charge-boosted attack, and the mount taking it's second move action.
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Alternately...
- Mount Rides 30' (Move Action)
- Mount readies a Standard Action (Rides 50') immediately after the rider's attack (Standard Action -- already used the move)
- Character Attacks with reach(Standard Action)
- Character Draws something from his belt(Move Action)Is there any prohibition against an animal companion or mount readying?
There is no prohibition against the mount readying. However, the mount and rider act together. Readying an action ends a turn. Because they act together, one of them readying ends the turn for both.
The link that Ssalern provided works best if you envision mounted combat combined actions as occurring in two impulses. Mount and rider can each act in the first (move or standard), and likewise they can both act in the second. This isn't spelled out and isn't RAW. That said, it results in the cleanest manner in a notoriously weak area of the rules.
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I like that way of thinking. I couldn't get the Hasbro links to work for me.
The link that Ssalern provided works best if you envision mounted combat combined actions as occurring in two impulses. Mount and rider can each act in the first (move or standard), and likewise they can both act in the second.
That utterly sucks.
The way I read it, based not only on rules but also feats and features that reference mounted combat, rider and mount not only share initiative but also actions.
For example, if a mounted character moves, he's spent his move action. This is why you can't move and full attack unless you have the level 15 Roughrider feature, and the reason why the level 7 Roughrider feature is attractive (it allows a full attack after the mount moves but you need to dismount).
So you just have a move, a standard and a swift as usual.
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The way I read it, based not only on rules but also feats and features that reference mounted combat, rider and mount not only share initiative but also actions.
For example, if a mounted character moves, he's spent his move action. This is why you can't move and full attack unless you have the level 15 Roughrider feature, and the reason why the level 7 Roughrider feature is attractive (it allows a full attack after the mount moves but you need to dismount).
So you just have a move, a standard and a swift as usual.
This is incorrect. The mount and rider have separate pools of actions, as clarified both in the mounted combat section where it notes that the mounte uses its own action for movement, all of the mounted archery abilities where it notes that the rider can take a full attack during the middle of the mount's movement. That interpretation would also make the "fight with a combat trained mount" use of the Ride skill superfluous as it would be impossible.
The Roughrider feature is to address the mounted combat rule that specifically states that if a mount moves more than 5 feet the rider can only make a single melee attack because he has to wait for the mount to reach the opponent. The mounted charge FAQ also notes that both the rider and the mount have to take a charge action for it to count as a mounted charge, making it clear that there are two separate pools of actions in play.It's also illogical to think that a druid and a horse have two pools of actions, but if the druid is on the horse they suddenly have 1. It would also make mounted combat very difficult for your Roughrider, who doesn't get an animal companion and has to spend actions for Handle Animal checks. It would also mean you could never move and attack with a non-combat trained mount and a number of other issues.
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The Rules of the Game articles are still available, although direct links to specific articles no longer work. Go to the archive, navigate to RotG on the right, then scroll through the various articles to find the ones on mounted combat.