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Some disgusting trends are steadily being exposed thanks to #gamergate raising awareness of corruption in video game journalism.
A plain-language examination of Zoe Quinn's lies, behavior, and her defenders.
"So it's just corruption in video games journalism, what does that have to do with your topic title?" Think about this: what if a group of academics decided to use social pressure and selective censorship to slowly change the culture and aesthetics surrounding a particular hobby (while the majority of enthusiasts didn't care for the interference). It would be wrong on so many levels. It would also be a conspiracy worth keeping an eye on.
This one is worth watching all the way to the end.
I really want to support independent titles, but now I've got to research them to death before I throw a dime at them.
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Uh. That's not the disgusting trend that is being exposed here. The disgusting trend being exposed is how a vocal minority (hopefully) will latch onto anything to spread disgusting lies and lash out at women, while hiding behind weak claims of "journalistic integrity".
I mean, they are literally discussing the pros and cons of harassing Zoe Quinn until she kills herself. (warning: not for the faint of heart.)
Are you sure that's the side you want to be on?
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Uh. That's not the disgusting trend that is being exposed here. The disgusting trend being exposed is how a vocal minority (hopefully) will latch onto anything to spread disgusting lies and lash out at women, while hiding behind weak claims of "journalistic integrity".
I mean, they are literally discussing the pros and cons of harassing Zoe Quinn until she kills herself. (warning: not for the faint of heart.)
Are you sure that's the side you want to be on?
Did you watch the videos?
If there was any shred of dishonesty behind Eron's (Quinn's ex) claims, any one of the five guys mentioned would be filing a defamation suit. Hasn't happened. At this point, it doesn't matter who Quinn (or any other developer) was involved in; what matters is that the staff members involved, invested, or lightly connected tried to cover it up. I remember reading one of the articles and seeing the line "this is not something we should talk about". We shouldn't talk about corruption?
At this point, I don't care what happens involving Quinn and the men she slept with--I'm concerned about propaganda being injected into video game discussions. Legitimate concerns? Sure. Social justice warrior garbage and oppression olympics? There is no place for that when discussing video games. This "you are either with feminists or you're wrong" outlook is akin to religious extremism.
I just want to play video games without funding gender studies propaganda and politely worded hate speech.
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Can you define "Social justice warrior garbage and oppression olympics" for me please?
Then I'll decide if I think what you think they mean belongs in what I believe a rigorous and ethical gaming culture should have at a bare minimum.
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If games are art, then they are allowed to have a point of view and are political artifacts. This means that if a game company wants to create a game that promotes diversity and tolerance, or a single independent creator wants to make a game about their personal experience they are allowed to.
GamerGate was created by the disgusting depths of 4Chan to shame women who are trying to change the culture of gaming for the better. I will never support the harassment of any creator.
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GamerGate was created by the disgusting depths of 4Chan to shame women who are trying to change the culture of gaming for the better. I will never support the harassment of any creator.
Exactly this.
If you want to debate journalistic integrity in the gaming industry, that's fine, but that's not what "#GamerGate" is about at all.
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I still haven't worked out what the 'gamers' are making a fuss about here. Do I have to watch a bunch of videos by people I have no interest in to understand, and then check up on every reference? Is there a clear example of a biased review or similar so I know not to trust that journalist's reviews any more? Does this 'cover up' involve anything more than some people not writing about something?
As a video game developer, when I worked for a large company with lots of money we had two main ways to influence journalists. Firstly, hospitality - who wants to do some go-karting? Secondly, advertising and exclusives. Any magazine (this was in the days when print publications were more important than the internet) that was taking your money would be biased towards giving you favorable coverage. Not massively biased, but they would be predisposed to give you the benefit of the doubt.
If you don't have the budget for that, other things that will help are friendship, or the journalist admiring something you've written or developed in the past. Again, it doesn't have to be intentional corruption. It just has to be a situation where the journalist hopes that the game will be good. This makes them want to write about what you're doing, generating publicity you wouldn't otherwise have had. I don't think a sexual relationship would significantly alter the equation.
All reporting is slightly biased. Allow for it.
(Humans are a lot more prone to influence than we like to think. There's an experiment involving mock-trials where judges were shown to give out harsher sentences if you mentioned the phrase 'twenty years' in a neutral context before they passed judgement.)
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Can you define "Social justice warrior garbage and oppression olympics" for me please?
Then I'll decide if I think what you think they mean belongs in what I believe a rigorous and ethical gaming culture should have at a bare minimum.
Social justice warrior garbage most commonly translates to "equality for everyone...except straight white males. No they don't need a voice because of all the collective bad things I associate with that broad racial category." This logic is based around the need to feel "more moral" than others and it always requires stereotypes. Social justice warrior garbage uses equality as a shield to attack acceptable targets. If equality was truly an issue, such individuals would not be attacking anyone based on their sexual preferences, race, or gender.
Oppression olympics is seeing victimhood as a positive thing and a desirable status. Victims are often portrayed as perfect maimed souls incapable of wrong-doing and their status as human is elevated to saint. Couple this with the need to out-moral one's peers and a professional victim emerges and sees any criticism as hate or victim-shaming. Such behavior is damaging in the long term for the real victims and their state is not something anyone in their right mind would dive into.
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If games are art, then they are allowed to have a point of view and are political artifacts. This means that if a game company wants to create a game that promotes diversity and tolerance, or a single independent creator wants to make a game about their personal experience they are allowed to.
I absolutely agree with this. One developer/team of developers that creates a game based on subjects and mechanics they love is exactly what the "independent" tag is all about. What's not okay is for a cabal of academics with a vested interest in controlling culture train PR firms on how to manipulate their clients (the developer(s)) original goals. That collusion violates the freedom of creating independent games.
GamerGate was created by the disgusting depths of 4Chan to shame women who are trying to change the culture of gaming for the better. I will never support the harassment of any creator.
No one interested in rational discussion supports harassment...but then again so many people see criticism as harassment.
So 4chan is the embodiment of all evil? Read more before stereotyping everyone that's ever gone to the site. You're wrong about the intention; gamergate was utilized to raise awareness of corruption and dishonesty in video game journalism.
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OK, so I've been reading up on this Gamer Gate thing, and I'm a tad confused still. I'm not a huge gamer (Tabletop > Video Games, forever and always), but it seems like this is inescapable at the moment (My YouTube is currently inundated with pro- and anti-Quinn videos.) So tell me if this is sort of correct:
-Zoe Quinn made a video game called Depression Quest and released it on Steam.
-Quinn claimed to be harassed in the lead-up to releasing the game by members of a board called Wizardchan. They say they didn't.
-Quinn's ex-boyfriend makes a blog about her which mentions numerous infidelities with members of the gaming press - the one everybody seems focused on is this guy from Kotaku, whose name escapes me.
-Quinn files a DMCA violation against a YouTube user named TotalBiscuit, which raises the ire of 4chan.
-4chan users are accused of doxxing Quinn and release nude photos, personal information, etc. They maintain that Quinn did this herself to garner sympathy.
One side says that the whole thing is not about Quinn's behavior at all but an expression of hostility toward female gamers and developers. I'm a bit confused by what the argument is on the other side of the coin, though - is it that she deserves no sympathy because she faked the attacks, or that she deserves no sympathy because she brought it on herself?
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You know the real problem here is? The guy they claimed she slept with to get positive reviews hasn't actually written anything about Quinn's game, Depression Quest.
So where does that leave us? This "gamergate" thing is actually exposing a problem with gaming journalism, but not like they're saying. It's exposing sexism. It's exposing the fact that "journalists" have run with something as fact when the only source was someone that is most certainly biased.
There have been cases of actual corruption and few people got up in arms. Yet we have something here with so little factual evidence and people are forming a "movement". You know what's different here? She has the audacity of being a woman.
"Gamer Culture" is a cesspool.
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gamergate was utilized to raise awareness of corruption and dishonesty in video game journalism.
Let's be realistic,
There is no expectation of integrity in journalism. Journalists need access and you can't gain access without friends.
Example: Sports journalism is probably the worst offender at this. If a local sports reported writes a negative story about a beloved star they no longer have access to that athlete and without that access they don't have a job. So all you get from local sports reports are fluff pieces.
You could go on and on through various industries but you would see that same pattern. Why should we expect the billion dollar game industry operate any differently? This is how news and money operate. Consumers just need to be savvy about how they absorb news.
Anyway this gamergate story quickly stopped being about corruption in gaming industry and has now morphed into internet trolls, misogyny, and harassment. Rightfully so, those guys are absolute pigs.
-MD
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In an industry where an 8/10 is considered a failure of a product, any modicum of journalistic integrity and level headed-ness goes completely out the window. Its not surprising that another female in the industry is getting flak for existing openly, regardless if her seducing her way to good reviews is true or not or even matters. I don't know about this whole gamer gate thing, being of a generation who is wedged between BBS and Meme craze (thus not caring what 4chan or reddit or etc are), but as the last two decades of internet use have showed me, the internet is 95% hateful trolling and 5% honest stuff.
-Quinn files a DMCA violation against a YouTube user named TotalBiscuit, which raises the ire of 4chan.
Okay this is the first name in this whole mess that I recognize. TotalBiscuit is a game reviewer/critic. Why did she file a violation against him?
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OK, so I've been reading up on this Gamer Gate thing, and I'm a tad confused still. I'm not a huge gamer (Tabletop > Video Games, forever and always), but it seems like this is inescapable at the moment (My YouTube is currently inundated with pro- and anti-Quinn videos.) So tell me if this is sort of correct:
-Zoe Quinn made a video game called Depression Quest and released it on Steam.
-Quinn claimed to be harassed in the lead-up to releasing the game by members of a board called Wizardchan. They say they didn't.
More than that: she tried baiting them into attacking her so that the event could be used to gain sympathy and cash. Here's four image logs of the "raid" attempt.
-Quinn's ex-boyfriend makes a blog about her which mentions numerous infidelities with members of the gaming press - the one everybody seems focused on is this guy from Kotaku, whose name escapes me.
-Quinn files a DMCA violation against a YouTube user named TotalBiscuit, which raises the ire of 4chan.
No, the DMCA was against MundaneMatt. Here's the restored video and all the sources used.
John Bain's (TB) remarks on Twitter and a longer statement on Twitlonger.
-4chan users are accused of doxxing Quinn and release nude photos, personal information, etc. They maintain that Quinn did this herself to garner sympathy.
One side says that the whole thing is not about Quinn's behavior at all but an expression of hostility toward female gamers and developers. I'm a bit confused by what the argument is on the other side of the coin, though - is it that she deserves no sympathy because she faked the attacks, or that she deserves no sympathy because she brought it on herself?
No, the nudes were edits of regular photos and weren't leaked or hacked.
Many people talking about this issue (myself included) aren't concerned with Quinn's personal behavior as much as they are about the wider implications. Silverstring's presence purged from the Escapist just a day after the fourth video was released in my first post. No, I don't think that video had much to do with Silverstring circling the wagons, but I think that as amateur investigators got closer and closer damage control was initiated.
EDIT: Forgot the damn links...
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I'm really disappointed in the level of discourse in this thread. There is a lot of dismissal of one entire side of this discussion going on - people convinced that this controversy is about the fact that a woman makes games instead of the colossal exposure that the lack of integrity in video games journalism is suddenly receiving.
Ask yourself this - if Zoe Quinn had been a man, and these same incidents of journalistic favoritism and misconduct had come to light, would it be reasonable for the gaming community to be upset and concerned over it?
Of course it would. No one would claim that gender-based persecution is going on, and we'd have a chance to affect real change.
Yes, there is a minority of people involved in this debate who are incredibly misogynistic and are motivated more by that than by anything else.
That does not give you the right to dismiss the entire other side of the argument as being utterly consumed by misogyny. That's incredibly offensive to those who see this as a worrying pattern of breaches of journalistic integrity.
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Let's be realistic,
There is no expectation of integrity in journalism.
What the crap did I just read?
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I'm an American and I reserve the right to dismiss any side of an argument I choose.
-MD
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Scott, I'm dismissing this other side because I don't think they deserve to be treated like news. The only source for all of this is a biased party. Exes are obviously such a reliable source of info about someone. And when you actually look at the people blamed here, there's no evidence that they actually did anything to support her.
I base things on facts and being a decent person. These guys are just a bunch of jerks with a misogynistic chip on their shoulder. And the fact that people are treating this like news is even more absurd. This isn't news. This is rumor mongering. It's the equivalent of TMZ. Don't treat it like "news".
What the crap did I just read?Let's be realistic,
There is no expectation of integrity in journalism.
So you believe every news article you read?
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Scott, I'm dismissing this other side because I don't think they deserve to be treated like news.
A massive, at least somewhat organized violation of journalistic integrity across the video games journalism field isn't news?
It sure as hell is news in my book. It should be in yours, too.
The only source for all of this is a biased party.
No, it isn't. You haven't been following this, but you have the opportunity to do so now.
Exes are obviously such a reliable source of info about someone.
And if it were nothing more than an ex, this wouldn't be an issue.
I base things on facts and being a decent person. These guys are just a bunch of jerks with a misogynistic chip on their shoulder. And the fact that people are treating this like news is even more absurd. This isn't news. This is rumor mongering. It's the equivalent of TMZ. Don't treat it like "news".
You have had a lot of resources provided to you in this thread. Have you looked at all of them? If not, why haven't you?
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So you believe every news article you read?What the crap did I just read?Let's be realistic,
There is no expectation of integrity in journalism.
There are a number of journalistic sources whose integrity I trust because they have repeatedly shown that they hold themselves to high standards. And, when there are rare mistakes or lapses, they actively seek to correct them.
Your attitude here is incredibly cynical.
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Damn. A thread where I find myself near constantly agreeing with Scott. It's kind of surreal.
Are you sure that's the side you want to be on?
Are we painting an entire segment of population by the actions of a handful of people claiming to be part of that group? I just want to make sure that's something you're cool with.
Obviously you're comfortable in your total knowledge that no one defending Zoe Quinn or the journalists in question has used hostile, demeaning, or abusive language, right?
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Zoe Quinn is not the news here. She is a footnote in this. Her conduct (if even half-true) is morally reprehensible, but is not, itself, newsworthy. The conduct of video game journalists, whose currency is their credibility, is newsworthy, and there are a lot of people who don't want that to receive more exposure out of the misguided belief that it's the best way to defend Quinn from further harm.
So you believe every news article you read?What the crap did I just read?Let's be realistic,
There is no expectation of integrity in journalism.
There are a number of journalistic sources whose integrity I trust because they have repeatedly shown that they hold themselves to high standards. And, when there are rare mistakes or lapses, they actively seek to correct them.
Your attitude here is incredibly cynical.
And I would say your attitude is incredibly naïve.
Sorry Scott, when I hear the word journalism, "integrity" is the last thing that comes to mind. It's great when I get it but I certainly do not expect it. I'd still roll dice with you though.
-MD
Damn. A thread where I find myself near constantly agreeing with Scott. It's kind of surreal.
Even a broken clock is correct twice a day :)
And I would say your attitude is incredibly naïve.
That's an unfortunate belief that I honestly don't think would stand up to anything beyond superficial scrutiny. I don't think that it's been particularly well-examined, and, perhaps more importantly, I think that the notion of journalistic integrity remains a goal that we as a society ought to aspire to, and that begins with holding journalists accountable. It's mind-boggling that there seems to be a genuine, dedicated movement to prevent games media from being held accountable for breaches of integrity.
Damn. A thread where I find myself near constantly agreeing with Scott. It's kind of surreal.Even a broken clock is correct twice a day :)
I think we probably have different opinions on how that ought to be read.
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Let's look at the Data.
For those of you who don't like reading, less than 0.5% of articles talk about feminist topics.
Not your shield also started on 4Chan as another method of harassment and distraction. I am happy to dismiss a side of an argument that has no basis in reality.
Cisgender heterosexual white dudes already have all the cards, your perceived inequality to white people is fear that people (women, poc, queer and gender fluid) without our privileges having the same power we do.
As a kid, I wondered why girls didn't play video games. Now when women want to play and try to tell us how they can be included, they get threatened, harrassed and ignored.
So yeah, I'm dismissing a side of this "argument" because one side is wrong. The opposition to the feminist "agenda" is that women don't deserve the same rights as men.
Zoe Quinn is not the news here. She is a footnote in this. Her conduct (if even half-true) is morally reprehensible, but is not, itself, newsworthy. The conduct of video game journalists, whose currency is their credibility, is newsworthy, and there are a lot of people who don't want that to receive more exposure out of the misguided belief that it's the best way to defend Quinn from further harm.What is the actual accusation?
I gave up about a 1/4 of the way through the exe's rant and am not going to sit through accusatory youtube videos.
The only accusation I've actually seen is the bit about her sleeping with a reviewer. Which might be bad, if he'd actually reviewed her work or had some other effect.
Is there a relatively unbiased summary out there somewhere?
I like this article by a Forbes contributor (note: not a particularly legitimate journalist by any stretch, but it nonetheless takes pains to remain neutral). It's focused less on the details of Quinn's behavior (which is, again, not the story) and more on the interplay between the gaming community and the games media world, and those aligning themselves with one side or the other.
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Let's look at the Data.
For those of you who don't like reading, less than 0.5% of articles talk about feminist topics.
Not your shield also started on 4Chan as another method of harassment and distraction. I am happy to dismiss a side of an argument that has no basis in reality.
Cisgender heterosexual white dudes already have all the cards, your perceived inequality to white people is fear that people (women, poc, queer and gender fluid) without our privileges having the same power we do.
As a kid, I wondered why girls didn't play video games. Now when women want to play and try to tell us how they can be included, they get threatened, harrassed and ignored.
So yeah, I'm dismissing a side of this "argument" because one side is wrong. The opposition to the feminist "agenda" is that women don't deserve the same rights as men.
I haven't claimed that feminism is taking over games journalism. I haven't claimed that cisgender, heterosexual white dudes don't hold all the cards. I haven't claimed that this is about the feminist agenda at all.
Because it isn't.
I am not a good target for you to accuse of siding with anti-feminists.
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You want to talk about journalistic ethics in games coverage?
Then you should talk about where the money comes from. A website plastered with advertising for a Triple-A game by a huge publisher like EA, also reviews said game. How "unbiased" do you think that coverage is? How unbiased will their coverage of other games from that publisher be?
Indie developers are not the problem when it comes to the ethics of games journalism.
Games journalism is mostly extended PR, except for the odd editorial, or consumer advocate. You want to talk about the ethics of games journalism, then follow the damn money.
Also frankly, given that this thread was the first I'd heard of it and the opening post includedwhat if a group of academics decided to use social pressure and selective censorship to slowly change the culture and aesthetics surrounding a particular hobby (while the majority of enthusiasts didn't care for the interference). It would be wrong on so many levels. It would also be a conspiracy worth keeping an eye on.I'm really not predisposed to this kind of conspiracy theory.
As I said earlier: Oooh the scary academic cabal
He was using it as a metaphor for what was being done by the games journalism community (overtly - this isn't a secret plan, nor is it even one whose goals I personally disagree with regardless of what I think of its methods). The parallel is that most people have an expectation of integrity and disclosure for both communities, and these are examples of those expectations failing on a massive scale.
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You want to talk about journalistic ethics in games coverage?
Then you should talk about where the money comes from. A website plastered with advertising for a Triple-A game by a huge publisher like EA, also reviews said game. How "unbiased" do you think that coverage is? How unbiased will their coverage of other games from that publisher be?
Indie developers are not the problem when it comes to the ethics of games journalism.
Games journalism is mostly extended PR, except for the odd editorial, or consumer advocate. You want to talk about the ethics of games journalism, then follow the damn money.
That sounds great. Do you think that we should make an effort to hold games journalism to a baseline level of integrity that nearly every other segment of media journalism is held to? Or should we be content to let it remain a joke, perpetually?
Welcome to the real world. This (and much worse) happens. A lot. In every industry. The food you believe safe, the drugs you believe will make you well, the brake pads that will protect you and your loved ones, even our precious table top rpg community, they all have flawed and outright bad people working on them. Trust no one.
Should those people be exposed as "outright bad" when the opportunity arises?
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Can anyone explain what a piece of "honest" game journalism would look like? I honestly can't really conceive of it. What can a game review actually be except for an extension of game advertising? Are honest game reviews supposed to be objective or something? How would that even be possible if the review is literally just the opinion of the journalist? What else could it possibly be?
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I think we probably have different opinions on how that ought to be read.Damn. A thread where I find myself near constantly agreeing with Scott. It's kind of surreal.Even a broken clock is correct twice a day :)
More than likely :)
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Can anyone explain what a piece of "honest" game journalism would look like? I honestly can't really conceive of it. What can a game review actually be except for an extension of game advertising? Are honest game reviews supposed to be objective or something? How would that even be possible if the review is literally just the opinion of the journalist? What else could it possibly be?
"Can anyone explain what a piece of "honest" film journalism would look like? I honestly can't really conceive of it. What can a film review actually be except for an extension of film advertising? Are honest film reviews supposed to be objective or something? How would that even be possible if the review is literally just the opinion of the journalist? What else could it possibly be?"
"Can anyone explain what a piece of "honest" literature journalism would look like? I honestly can't really conceive of it. What can a book review actually be except for an extension of publisher advertising? Are honest book reviews supposed to be objective or something? How would that even be possible if the review is literally just the opinion of the journalist? What else could it possibly be?"
"Can anyone explain what a piece of "honest" art journalism would look like? I honestly can't really conceive of it. What can an art review actually be except for an extension of art advertising? Are honest art reviews supposed to be objective or something? How would that even be possible if the review is literally just the opinion of the journalist? What else could it possibly be?"
There are dozens of other media fields out there, and many manage to have well-respected journalistic communities that surround them. Games journalism does not, and it appears to be getting worse, not better.