Confusion over Charge + Grapple

[barry lyndon]

One of my players wanted to charge and grapple, and I let him, revisiting the rules after and giving my self a slap on the head.

So grapple is a standard action and therefore can't replace the attack action at the end of the charge. But...why? In 3.5 you could grapple at the end of a charge (I think), so why not now?

Someone pointed out that if grapple was an attack action you could use it with BAB multiple bonuses. I still don't see a problem. If you've got 2 arms, you can grapple 2 foes, with the penalties, Friar Tuck style. Bang their heads together.

So really my question is one of verisimilitude. Why wouldn't a barbarian be able to charge and wrestle someone to the floor (bearing in mind he can sunder, disarm, trip and bullrush)?

[Atarlost]

Because martials can't have nice things.

Full Casters, on the other hand, can charge and grapple with a +4 on each of five attacks while also reaping the CMB modifiers for large size and don't need to spend feats to not provoke.

Silly fighter, combat maneuvers are for druids.

[Dazz]

I think what they were probably going for was the idea that a full grapple involves grabbing and wrestling and restraints and such, which arguably takes a little bit longer than the second or so in your round at the end of a charge.

It may also require a bit more attention than you could manage while running headlong at someone--your momentum probably isn't as helpful as it would be for anything that involves a good swing at the end (the sunder, disarm, trip--and of course bull rush and Overrun are all about the momentum), so the bonus on your grapple attempt wouldn't make a huge amount of sense.

If you're thinking a charge and tackle someone to the floor, that could just as easily be a trip, where you attempt to grapple them the next round.

The grab 2 people with penalties I can see being a thing (although obviously you'll need someone who's insanely good at grappling to offset the penalties you'd rationally have) and banging their heads together could just be a flavorful way to describe an unarmed strike against two separate opponents (since generally you don't hold on to the people after banging them together).

That said, all of this is fairly logical and I'm certainly not saying that your argument isn't sound. In fact my primary gripe about grapple being standard action only is not being able to use it as an AoO--I feel you should be allowed to try to grab someone when they're doing something you don't want them to do. But devs decided it made more sense this way I guess.

[Kazaan]

Someone was writing up a set of custom grapple rules that involved three types:

Hold: Not a full grapple, you're just giving them the Entangled condition. Just requires one hand so no penalty for not having two hands available. Replaces any melee attack.

Grapple: Normal, standard grapple.

Tackle: Grapple + Trip, effectively. Standard action or can be performed in place of the melee attack at the end of a Charge. If you fail severely, you fall prone instead.

Maybe use that if you want a little more versatility in your Grapple rules.