The haunt rules indicate that the central effect for a haunt is a fear effect, and Paladins are immune to fear by the time they are high enough level to get here. In addition their anti-fear aura will make the other saves way easier for everyone else.
Is this true? Or is there a way that haunts get around a paladin's fear immunity? Anyone have any recommendations?
Peet
Yeah, Aura of Courage is a problem. Still here are some advice:
1. Raise the DC of haunts (by 5-10 r 10-15). I did in my game, because my players had very big saves for standard DC. It will eliminate the problem with +4 bonus from aura.
2.
Immunity to fear grants immunity to a haunt’s direct effects, but not to secondary effects that arise as a result of the haunt’s attack.
- so, now paladin isn't totally immune against haunts. If you want, add more secondary effects to haunts.
3. Try delicately to split the party in their exploration of the mansion. Eventually they'll gang up back, so don't worry.4. Demand from players to roleplay, why their characters are orbiting paladin.
5. Make a haunt for corridors on second floor and attic.
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Peet,
I don't know if you've looked at my thread, but I had a paladin go through Misgivings and she was indeed immune to the effects. But it ran really well:
- Keep in mind that your primary goal (at least mine was) is to tell them the history of the manor, not to just kill them for fun. I had my paladin see the haunts, she just wasn't affected by them and didn't have to save against them. It made the party FAR more inclined to try to explore every room to get the full story.
- Also, since many of the haunts target specific PCs, I had the targeted PCs get hit no matter who performed the action. Having the party bard walk up and stab the paladin after she'd triggered the Misogyny haunt was hilarious. He was a bard. The damage was... a minor annoyance. But he did roll the natural 20 he needed to hit her.
So I had the barbarian trying to kill himself, the bard stabbing the paladin, the sorcerer getting choked near to death...
...the paladin really didn't spoil my fun at all!
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Play up how the other party members feel safer near the Paladin and make sure to point out the save bonuses a few times. The Paladin player is probably not going to have too many times that aura is going to be useful, so make sure he gets to have that power's moment in the sun.
Agreed.
There are times when each class gets his chance to shine - let's not punish a player for that by denying him the chance. If you feel compelled, tweak a few things, replace a haunt or two with creature encounters, perhaps even ones neutral in alignment, but don't remove a Paladin's opportunity to benefit from an aura that will rarely be used otherwise. That would be like removing combat encounters because the Barbarian's Rage is 'just too good' or deliberately omitting creatures because they match a Ranger's favored enemies list.
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I'm with NobodysHome on this one. My group had fun "having visions" and getting the history of the house and family, even if there was no negative impact. My cavalier player decided to take the lead in most rooms after the first few, because he felt left out early as the last person I handed a "secret note" to.
Of course, they also never figured out that the paladin is immune or boosts the saves of the others, and I decided not to give them any hints about that. Having them fail a few saves makes things more fun. *evil grin*
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Yeah, I'll just reiterate: Just because she's immune doesn't mean she isn't "affected".
I *loved* the way my paladin RP'ed it out. She *knew* the haunts couldn't affect her. But, seeing a child's playroom, and knowing that she was about to experience the most horrific thing that had happened to any child who had lived in that playroom, her ears drooped, her shoulders sagged, and she dutifully stepped in, knowing full well she was about to experience something horrific.
It *REALLY* made this Misgivings a sad, horrible, tragic place.
I don't know if I could have done it WITHOUT a paladin. She was willing to go in and "take the hit" because she wouldn't take any damage that would show up on her character sheet. And so I got to describe each haunt in loving, horrific detail.
Being immune to fear didn't mean she didn't take significant emotional damage from having to live through all those memories... they just didn't "hurt" her...
It was one of the best portions of the AP, and only worked because we had a paladin. I've heard other GMs complain that they had to "turn off" the haunts to convince the players to explore. Getting a paladin to "suck it up" is waaaaaay better from a storytelling perspective...
NobodysHome is entirely correct. If we hadn't got a paladin in our party, we would have had to retreat from the mansion entirely since the rest of us had poor will saves and were being torn apart by the haunts. We were about to give it all up when we realised that the paladin was immune. There is very little worse than feeling totally helpless - make the save or die, nothing else possible; repeat in the next room.
We therefore got the story and were able to continue with the plot without going off to earn gold from random adventures in order to hire a high level cleric to come and cleanse the place on our behalf.
I'd say that having a paladin is essential for success! (We lacked any other divine character.)
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Anyone have any recommendations?
Yes, let the Paladin enjoy his chance to shine.
A lot of good responses here and I have only a couple nits to add:
1. Keep in mind only a couple haunts should be assigned to the paladin - so immunity only really blunts a small percentage. I would encourage you to preserve that - sending in the paladin alone isn't a solution, other party members need to enter the room. No, you can't search the room from the hallway. No, you have to enter the room to read the books. Etc.
2. Not only should you give the paladin a chance to use a class ability but you need to let the other players in the group benefit from it - in this case the bonus to saves vs. fear. The group as a whole "pays a price" for having a paladin - there are a whole range of choices and actions that might be loosely described as good or at least well-intentioned that are denied to a group that includes a paladin:
"No, you are not torturing that goblin for information."
"No, you are not lying to the merchant about what you did to his daughter. At least I am not lying for you."
"No, you are not animating the dead bugbear to help us fight <blank>"
And so on.
Just houserule that the immunity doesn't apply to haunts and boom there you go. houserule, houserule houserule! James Jacobs won't come to your home and slap you if you decide to houserule.
James Jacobs won't come to your home and slap you if you decide to houserule.Famous last words...T-Rexs tend to show up in the oddest of places.
Yeah, but they have itty-bitty arms. They can't look at you and slap you at the same time.
And don't get me started on the monitor set-up he has at the office...
Paladins tend to steamroll most encounters in Adventure Paths.
Why? Because a majority of the enemies are of an evil alignment and such.
"No, you are not torturing that goblin for information."
"No, you are not lying to the merchant about what you did to his daughter. At least I am not lying for you."
"No, you are not animating the dead bugbear to help us fight <blank>"
And so on.
That's why you never ask the paladin for permission. Forgiveness is easier to get.
I'm with NobodysHome on this one. My group had fun "having visions" and getting the history of the house and family, even if there was no negative impact.
Sure... I can see how this would work. But I do want the players to interact with things in the house; they shouldn't just be tourists.
Of course, they also never figured out that the paladin is immune or boosts the saves of the others, and I decided not to give them any hints about that. Having them fail a few saves makes things more fun. *evil grin*
This is a neat idea. I may have the paladin character roll saves anyway (and just never tell him that he failed a save) and not tell him it's a fear effect.
Yeah, I'll just reiterate: Just because she's immune doesn't mean she isn't "affected".
That was a great story, NH. And that does clear up one thing... I wasn't sure if the immunity would prevent "seeing" the haunt.
I may add some monsters to the house anyway, on account of the encounters will mostly go perception-initiative-will save-channel energy, repeat.
To clear something up though... if a haunt is directed at a specific person, then the other characters don't even see it, right? In that case, do the other players still get a chance to notice that something is up before the haunt goes off? Or do they not have any chance to intervene until they see the haunted character go nuts?
Also, can anyone give me examples of haunts with a secondary affect that will work on the Paladin?
Peet