| dhyr |
In my next gaming session I plan to introduce the PC's to a new City that has some restrictions on weapon carriage within it walls.
So basically its like "leave everything thats longer then a dagger at the front gate - you get it back when you leave".
However I don't really know how to deal with magic users in this case. It seems to be a bit unfair to take away the fighters Great-sword while the wizard keeps all his "fireball destruction".
The cheap way out would be to have all magic users wear something like a collar that only the guards can remove and that prevents them from using any magic. However, that leads to the question how they would identify magic users in the first place.
How do you handle such cities in your game?
Davor
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Well, I've never had a city like this before, but it's certainly not out of the question. First of all, if wizards exist in this world, it would make sense for guards to check for a spellbook or familiar. Barring that, I would imagine that most of the guards in this town might carry an item that allows them to detect magic in a person (a unique variant of the Detect Magic spell), which "pings" someone as a spellcaster, at which point said person could be issued an armband or something with an anti-magic field on it. That's just off the top of my head, though.
| SunRunner |
Yeah the best way to deal with that is to make it clear to the PCs that any use of combat magic out side of a self defense scenario is going to get the witch hunters called in and the the witch hunters WILL FIND you and they will do bad things to you. Also dont ban all magic, fighters are allowed daggers well that means wizards get magic missile.
You can also point out that magic users are responsible for any and all collateral damage for any spell they cast.IE, If you get attacked by a gang of thugs and use a fire ball in self defense and burn the Inn down you may not be charged with magical murder but you still bought the Inn. The magic users are also charged the cost of all resources used to apprehend them by the way.
| darkwarriorkarg |
The cheap way out would be to have all magic users wear something like a collar that only the guards can remove and that prevents them from using any magic.
1) Do NOT do this. A fighter without a main weapon is still a fighter. Weapons are the accessory. A wizard without spells is a commoner.
2) What Artanthos said.
3) In-game questions: Why are there such restrictions? Who enforces them? Can characters purchase a license exempting them from some or all the restrictions?
EG: In Eberron, in the majority of cities, Fireball would get you branded a mass murderer. But magic Missile was certainly permitted for self-defense. Local authorities could also issue a permit allowing characters to use extreme measures.
| dhyr |
... First of all, if wizards exist in this world, it would make sense for guards to check for a spellbook or familiar.
We play the Golarion Campaign World, so spellcasters are pretty common. Checking for a spellbook is an idea that came into my mind too, but what happens to divine spell casters or bards?
The following addresses the "dont take magic away, just penalize it" issue:
I don't think that quite hits the point. Its the same as allowing weapons and make it a crime to draw it or hurt another person with it. (So basically like every other city does :) ). The purpose to forbid weapons within a town is that you feel that it increases the overall safety. You do not only punish their use you just take away the possibility to do so. The only reason daggers are still allowed is because you'd have one to cut your meat in the inn anyways.
| dhyr |
dhyr wrote:The cheap way out would be to have all magic users wear something like a collar that only the guards can remove and that prevents them from using any magic.1) Do NOT do this. A fighter without a main weapon is still a fighter. Weapons are the accessory. A wizard without spells is a commoner.
2) What Artanthos said.
3) In-game questions: Why are there such restrictions? Who enforces them? Can characters purchase a license exempting them from some or all the restrictions?
EG: In Eberron, in the majority of cities, Fireball would get you branded a mass murderer. But magic Missile was certainly permitted for self-defense. Local authorities could also issue a permit allowing characters to use extreme measures.
1) A fighter without a weapon is still a fighter but he can't do much vs a fully armed person. A wizard is defined by its spells that right but he still has the wits and knowledge to handle situations without his magic.
3) The major of the city enforces them. He's a corrupt guy who wants to enhance his power while the kingdom is at war. He is backed up by the towns guard so not allowing weapons with the city greatly enhances their strength (as they are the only ones still in possession of weapons). To his citizens he explain this law by telling a tale about rebells that should not be able to infiltrate the city armed.
LazarX
|
In my next gaming session I plan to introduce the PC's to a new City that has some restrictions on weapon carriage within it walls.
So basically its like "leave everything thats longer then a dagger at the front gate - you get it back when you leave".
However I don't really know how to deal with magic users in this case. It seems to be a bit unfair to take away the fighters Great-sword while the wizard keeps all his "fireball destruction".
The cheap way out would be to have all magic users wear something like a collar that only the guards can remove and that prevents them from using any magic. However, that leads to the question how they would identify magic users in the first place.How do you handle such cities in your game?
For the most part I don't. In some very lawful cities, all sorcerer and wizard types above a certain level of ability, i.e. 4th have to either join the War Wizards or register. (and if you function enough like either, say a Magus or Witch, you count as well.
On other cities one could require that any weapon longer than a dagger must have a sealed peace bond placed on it. Any breakage of the peace bond must be accounted for by a guardsman who will either rebound the weapon if the offense was warranted or apply any of a variety of measurements which may include impoundment and/or imprisonment. (a soul bound weapon will be kept in an iron box in close proximity.)
Most towns however below a certain level of population are pretty much Dodge City.
Artanthos
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1) A fighter without a weapon is still a fighter but he can't do much vs a fully armed person. A wizard is defined by its spells that right but he still has the wits and knowledge to handle situations without his magic.
How is your campaign dealing with monks and brawlers?
How does your campaign deal with the priests of recognized religions?
How does your campaign deal with mages using magic as part of a legitimate business?
| SunRunner |
and you can say a fighter with a dagger is not that scary but give a 10th level fighter a dagger and he will still make mince meat out of alot of what is typical town guards men in the 1st to 3rd level range. Also any beast totem barbarian is just as bad as a monk or a brawler cause soon as he rages he grows claws.
| SunRunner |
The reality is your getting into real world issues where safety is ultimately a social illusion. Cause if that city exists then there are going to be people specifically adapted to it like fighters who are street thugs who work for the thieves guild that all their fighter feats are in dual wielding daggers and they will be scary. Same for rogues, if they spend any time at all trying to be good with a dagger they can be pretty scary with just one as well. The dagger may only be 1d4 but its the 5d6 sneak attack and poison behind it that gets scary.
| Southeast Jerome |
PFS scenario 14 (Many Fortunes of Grandmaster Torch) has a version of this.
| DominusMegadeus |
Unless you go down the anti-magic field route and fiat it so that it covers the whole city via a central field generator of some sort, there will be all manner of caster that you just can't disable. Combine that with the brawler/monk/businessmage problem Artanthos brought up and it all falls apart. Things like this don't fall apart as easily in a generally lower-level world.
Your only recourse for non-AMF use is to have magic on your side, as usual. The guards should probably be Magi or Clerics of the predominant religion in the kingdom if that church runs the land. If you do use the AMF, you could have the guards be monks/brawlers depending on the flavor of the city.
| Friend of the Dork |
You might even take it a step further and ban all militairy weapons, thus only cutlery would be allowed. That is at best a 1d3 knife, or at worst an improvised weapon. A dagger is actually a weapon made for killing, just like a pistol is today. It is longer than most knives, double edged, and often taperered and strengthened to pierce armor such as chainmail.
Feel free to ban magic use for all except licensed members - it is your game world. Magic users are considred OP by PF community, so sometimes limiting it's use is fair play IMO. It is also a chance for Monks and supernatural abilities to shine.
But remember: There are always workarounds. Weapons can be smuggled, wizards disguised, or alternate weapons. Don't make the city guards or anti-magic guards omnipotent or omniprescient.
Ps: Arcane Sight spell can detect casters.
Lou Diamond
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Dhyr, do not take a fighters weapons away. When the party enters the town the gate guards peace string the weapons which usually Involves wrapping the scabbard and pommel of the weapon in bright string and sealing it with a wax stamp.
why would a fighter who has spent a wagon load of gold on his bright shiny magic sword hand it over to some yokel gate guard and if the gate guard tried to take it away from him the fighter would be justified in running the gate guard through.
The way to handle casters is to hand them a hand bill showing the penaties
for using harmful sells with in city limits and strictly enforce it.
A different hand bill would be given martial explaining the penalties for using weapons on towns folks and enforce it.
| DominusMegadeus |
Dhyr, do not take a fighters weapons away. When the party enters the town the gate guards peace string the weapons which usually Involves wrapping the scabbard and pommel of the weapon in bright string and sealing it with a wax stamp.
why would a fighter who has spent a wagon load of gold on his bright shiny magic sword hand it over to some yokel gate guard and if the gate guard tried to take it away from him the fighter would be justified in running the gate guard through.
The way to handle casters is to hand them a hand bill showing the penaties
for using harmful sells with in city limits and strictly enforce it.
A different hand bill would be given martial explaining the penalties for using weapons on towns folks and enforce it.
I don't think you're playing a good character, and certainly not a lawful one, if you run city officals through for touching your weapons which are completely illegal in their city.
| Mister Fluffykins |
You could always just have them stamp the wizard's forehead with a certain symbol, and then bind several of his fingers together with leather straps; nothing that'd prevent him from going about his day to day life, but certainly enough to stop any spellcaster who didn't invest in Still Spell from casting the vast majority of his repertoire. Severe fines for any spellcaster found without his fingerstraps.
And if they DID invest in Still Spell? Good for them. I never see it taken.
| Hark |
Magic users restricting and policing magic users.
Step one, take away their spell components, wands, staves, scrolls, etc. Doesn't stop everything, but it goes a long way.
Step two, all magic users must register with city guard. How many details you want the process to collect is up to you. Failure to register is a serious crime.
Step three, all registered magic users must wear some item, non-magical, in a clearly visible manner that identifies the wearer as a magic user.
These can be expended on as needed, in particular the registration can be expanded to include the option for licencing to use certain magics. It's probably really easy to become a licensed healer for example.
| born_of_fire |
You might find that your PC's turn around and walk away from the city if entry is reliant on onerous conditions like surrendering your valuable magic weapons to perfect strangers. If a promise to return the PC's personal fortunes is expected to be enough assurance that they are not being jerked around by the local constabulary, then a promise from them that they won't use their weapons or magic to wreak havoc should be enough assurance from the PC's since no trusting relationship has been established on either side, IMHO. A peace bond for the martials and a promise to refrain from magic use is all my DM ever requires.
| Thelemic_Noun |
Davor wrote:... First of all, if wizards exist in this world, it would make sense for guards to check for a spellbook or familiar.We play the Golarion Campaign World, so spellcasters are pretty common. Checking for a spellbook is an idea that came into my mind too, but what happens to divine spell casters or bards?
The following addresses the "dont take magic away, just penalize it" issue:
I don't think that quite hits the point. Its the same as allowing weapons and make it a crime to draw it or hurt another person with it. (So basically like every other city does :) ). The purpose to forbid weapons within a town is that you feel that it increases the overall safety. You do not only punish their use you just take away the possibility to do so. The only reason daggers are still allowed is because you'd have one to cut your meat in the inn anyways.
Nothing is stopping him from going on a rampage with the grenade launcher, but the fact that the government knows literally everything about him, the expense is insane, and the list of suspects is pretty damned short, he's going to get caught. And the background check is supposed to weed out the depressed and suicidal people who might just say "screw it" and do it anyway.
Your world might do the same with spellbooks, or at least access to written forms of spells such as fireball.
It is possible to identify whether a character has spells prepared or spell slots available: arcane sight reveals this.
Wizards who have spent all their spell slots and haven't prepared new ones, as well as sorcerers who have expended all their spell slots and haven't performed the 15-minute meditation to regain them, have this fact revealed to anyone who casts arcane sight and studies them, and their "most powerful spell available" register as cantrips. Arcane sight can be made permanent, so the standard action check can become a routine part of "customs processing" at the gate.
In this version, no one with spells above level 0 is allowed past the gate, unless special dispensation is provided and the caster is subjected to spell gauge, at which point they may retain any spells the watch has identified (spell gauge can't identify spells above level 4, so they are limited to spells of that level or below). Depending on the town's level of sophistication, they may offer the caster the opportunity to "dump" their spells into a stationary magic item that converts spell energy into energy to power the town's infrastructure (mills that turn themselves, carriages that pull themselves, buildings that repair themselves and resist weathering, etc). If they do so willingly, and look like they will be a positive influence on the town (a successful merchant, for example), they may well be paid for doing so.
Note that a bonded object (which can be identified with detect magic) should also be confiscated and held until the character leaves town.
If you want to be super-paranoid about it, you could have characters identified as spellcasters be subject to a mark of justice penalizing their main casting stat that activates if they attempt to refresh their daily spells or cast acid splash, bleed, or ray of frost.
Oracles are given away by their curse, plus by registering as divine.
Paladins are given a free pass, because they can't break the law with their spells without losing them anyway.
Telling between clerics, druids, and inquisitors is unnecessary since they register as divine and use the same stat.
If a spellbook is found on a character that registers as arcane, the default assumption is Intelligence. This goes double if the character has both a martial weapon and medium armor.
Bards, summoners, and sorcerers are typically given away by their high Charisma, since a high Charisma draws the eye (not just appearance, but bearing and self-assuredness) and lingers in the memory unless they successfully hide it via Bluff. Bards have a further giveaway in that they typically carry a certain array of items such as instruments to aid their profession.
| DominusMegadeus |
You could also look to The Pure Legion from Rahadoum. While they focus entirely on keeping religion and divine magic out of the country, you could homebrew some of their stuff to apply to both divine and arcane without unbalancing anything.
Link for the prestige class Purity Legion Enforcer. Detect chaos/evil/good/law at will, half his class level on saving throws against magic, detect magic long after it's been used at will, bonus to disarming, sundering and stealing magic items, discern lies SLA, confirming a crit against a spell caster outright blocks them from casting for a while, and innate spell resistance.
LazarX
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For this sort of thing to work, you actually will have had to police wizards overall.... If you've been lax in how your magic works and your wizards are strolling the world like gods incarnate, only the truly incompetent are going to be inconvenienced by these sort of edicts.
For this to work, arcane spell casters have to have some built in weaknesses... limits in spell access, limits on how much they get to bend the rules etc... and especially limits on how much they can bypass pre-reqs in spell and item creation. That's why this sort of thing worked in the Deryni series, the psionics in that setting simply weren't so powerful that they could set aside the mundanes at will.
Needless to say, this sort of story isn't for a high level campaign.
| Thelemic_Noun |
And there was a spell released for 3.5 (I can't remember whether it was Wizards or a 3pp, but I definitely found it in a hardback from my FLGS) that might help. I wrote up the text in a word doc before I lent the book out to a friend who was moving away. Let me see if I can dig it up...
EDIT: Here.
Abjuration
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: one 60-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration: Permanent (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates, see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
You create a special ward that prevents creatures with spells or spell-like abilities from entering an area. Any creature that has spells prepared, spell slots available for casting without preparation, or innate spell-like abilities must succeed on a Will save or be halted by an invisible barrier that prevents passage. This barrier extends onto the Ethereal and Shadow planes. Add the spell level (or effective spell level) of the highest level prepared spell, open spell slot, or spell-like ability with uses remaining to the Will save DC for a given creature. You can choose to designate a password or special condition (such as character race, alignment, possession of a token, or any other observable or detectable characteristic) by which spellcasting characters and creatures can enter the refusal-warded area.
Creatures that have no spellcasting capability or spell-like abilities (including spellcasters who have used up their spell slots and creatures with spell trigger or spell completion magic items) can pass through the barrier with no difficulty. Spellcasters and creatures that have spell-like abilities and that are already within the area you protect when you create the ward are not compelled to leave or restricted in their movement within it. However, if such creatures leave the area, they must succeed on saving throws as described above to return.
Creatures attempting to use any teleportation spell or effect to enter the warded area make the normal saving throw. They are shunted harmlessly to the nearest safe space outside the warded area if they fail. Teleportation from one location within the ward to another location, whether within or outside the ward, is not affected.
Spells, spell-like abilities, magic item effects, supernatural abilities, and all other forms of magic that are not teleportation effects can pass through the barrier in either direction without restriction.
The eldritch ward can only be dispelled by an effect of 6th level or above whose caster level is at least 5 higher than the caster level of the ward.
Material component: cold iron filings worth 500 gp per 60-ft-cube.
| demontroll |
Instead of confiscating weapons and such, the city guard ask the adventurers to leave a 'damage deposit' with the authorities. It will be refunded when the group leaves town and have not gotten into trouble.
If the city suspects the adventurers of possible wrongdoing, a city guard of the same gender will be assigned to each adventurer. They will watch their assigned suspect the entire time they are in the city. Of course, the adventurers will have to pay a 'nominal fee' for this 'service'. If the adventurers evade their watchers, they will be considered to be criminals.
| Anonymous Visitor 163 576 |
Well, most governments need money.
So, the solution I used was to ban martial weapons and medium and heavy armor in town, plus crossbows.
I also made spellcasting a crime when used on others without permission. Charming someone with magic is the same crime as threatening to burn down their shop.
Now, if you want to purchase a license, that's another story. That gives you permission to walk around, but it also means that authorities know who you are and can take that license away.
Plus, remember that other groups have a vested interest in law and order. The local guards might not have much of a will save, but the mages guild WILL care that that a wizard is abusing magic.
Made for a fun campaign, and encouraged negotiation and stealth, which I quite liked.
Artanthos
|
Magic users restricting and policing magic users.
Step one, take away their spell components, wands, staves, scrolls, etc. Doesn't stop everything, but it goes a long way.
Step two, all magic users must register with city guard. How many details you want the process to collect is up to you. Failure to register is a serious crime.
Step three, all registered magic users must wear some item, non-magical, in a clearly visible manner that identifies the wearer as a magic user.
These can be expended on as needed, in particular the registration can be expanded to include the option for licencing to use certain magics. It's probably really easy to become a licensed healer for example.
Can we also append "Sara" to the given name of all female magic users?
| Kayerloth |
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Lots of good ideas here.
License, Registration, Peacebond, Damage Deposit, Laws/Statutes (pertaining to the use of magic, components/pouch, spell or 'prayer' books, etc.), any of which can be used not only for spellcasters but for anyone within the city limits whether adventures or common folk. And all these ideas can be gone into in greater detail if desired.
Very much agree with Anonymous Visitor it can make for a lot of fun as well as adventure hooks.
| gamer-printer |
I included weapon/spell restrictions in the Lord's castle in one of my published adventures, but no such restrictions in the city where the lord's castle existed. It seemed an appropriate measure to protect the local "prince" in his own castle, but too extreme for the city at large. Although there were indeed severe penalties for murder, combat, destructive magic use while in the city, but people were allowed to keep their weapons and spellbooks.