Sound of coup de grace

[Hama]

An interesting question. PCs stumble upon a room with beds and several sleeping monsters (goblins/hobgoblins etc.) they decide to eliminate them before they become a threat by killing them in their sleep.

What would a DC for a sleeping creature be, to hear another creature being coup de grace'd in the bed next to it's?

I know there is a +10 bonus to DC because of sleep, but what other modifiers would there be?

[HaraldKlak]

Hama wrote:

An interesting question. PCs stumble upon a room with beds and several sleeping monsters (goblins/hobgoblins etc.) they decide to eliminate them before they become a threat by killing them in their sleep.

What would a DC for a sleeping creature be, to hear another creature being coup de grace'd in the bed next to it's?

I know there is a +10 bonus to DC because of sleep, but what other modifiers would there be?

I'd say it depend a lot of the type of coup de grace.

Chopping heads of with a greataxe or scythe for a high crit modifier? Pretty loud. Almost to the point of 'hearing battle'.

Slitting a throat with a dagger, while keeping the other hand on his mouth? Pretty stealthy. I'd probably take a standard perception vs. stealth with the sleeping penalty. Though you risk not killing the target...

[Elamdri]

Well, it's a -10 to hear the sound of battle. Being asleep adds a +10 modifier, so hearing the sound of battle while asleep is a DC 0 perception check unmodified.

The question then becomes how loud a coup de grace is. It's a DC 0 to hear the details of a conversation and a DC 10 to hear the details of a whispered conversation.

If you think a Coup de grace is louder than a whisper but quieter than a normal conversation, I'd go around DC 5? If you think it's louder than a normal conversation, but quieter than the sounds of battle, go with like a -5 maybe?

Honestly, in my groups when we come up to situations like this, we will either try to set up a simultaneous coup or cast silence on the guy doing the dirty work.

[Brian Bachman]

Make them describe how they are going to do it. If they come up with a reasonable plan to do it quietly, it should have a good chance to succeed. If their plan is to use a warhammer to smash their heads in one at a time with power attack, not so much.

[IejirIsk]

I guess just go for big baddy intending to let others wake up, i imagine the intimidate check bonus would be quite nice.... just make sure it IS a big baddie and not his auntie

[Komoda]

In that situation I would rule that it is generally quiet. I would rule it a 5 with the normal rules for sleeping. It is only battle if the victim has any chance to respond. As such if the blow does not kill it then I would include the +10 to hear battle.

[Starbuck_II]

HaraldKlak wrote:

Hama wrote:

An interesting question. PCs stumble upon a room with beds and several sleeping monsters (goblins/hobgoblins etc.) they decide to eliminate them before they become a threat by killing them in their sleep.

What would a DC for a sleeping creature be, to hear another creature being coup de grace'd in the bed next to it's?

I know there is a +10 bonus to DC because of sleep, but what other modifiers would there be?

I'd say it depend a lot of the type of coup de grace.

Chopping heads of with a greataxe or scythe for a high crit modifier? Pretty loud. Almost to the point of 'hearing battle'.

Slitting a throat with a dagger, while keeping the other hand on his mouth? Pretty stealthy. I'd probably take a standard perception vs. stealth with the sleeping penalty. Though you risk not killing the target...

So two handed Coups are louder than one handed?

[Jeven]

Starbuck_II wrote:

So two handed Coups are louder than one handed?

That makes sense. A knife across the throat or strangling with a garotte would be a lot quieter than hacking someone to death with a battleaxe.

I would apply different stealth penalties to the action depending on how much noise you'd expect the weapon to make.
A garotte or a knife across the throat would probably be pretty quiet with just a -2 penalty, while a battle-axe or concussion weapon like a club perhaps a -8, with other weapons somewhere in between.

Large or smashing weapons just aren't very subtle and more likely to wake up people sleeping in neighboring beds.

[R_Chance]

Penalties to be heard (+2 each) for others using "Aid Another" actions to hold the prospective "deader" still might be in order. The Thugee, the Kali stranglers, worked in teams; the senior was the strangler, others held the sleeping victims still to avoid waking others while the strangling was ongoing.

[Turin the Mad]

There's also the hefty penalties for hearing through doors and walls in addition to distance to consider, based on going all Thuggee on the goblinoids in their sleep. If the players are able, silence works wonders so long as the spell drops at about the same time that the axe falls.

[Varthanna]

There's a reason all the Nazgul did their coup de graces in unison, right? But really, I'd rule it the shlick of a blade and the gurgle of blood to be the same as whisper, so effectively DC 20 before accounting for distance from target.

[mcv]

I'd say the DC is the result of the Stealth roll by the coup-de-gracer (is that a word?). A sneaky rogue with a knife will do it soundlessly, while a fighter in clanking armour and a big sword will make some noise.

You could decide that light one-handed weapons get a bonus while heavy two-handed weapons get a penalty, to reward people for using knives instead of two-handed axes.

[darkwarriorkarg]

Group's cleric/oracle should always have a silence spell ready... (either to nerf enemy spellcasters or for situations where silence is golden)