Quick draw and splash weapons

[Fallax]

Wrong subforum last time, switched it here, dunno how to delete the previous thread. Admins will take care of it, I guess, because I'm a noob :D

I need a legal clarification on this:

"Quick Draw (Combat): You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly using this feat."

Are splash weapons considered as weapons or alchemical items here, since they logically apply to both groups (if you use them as weapons)?

Another thing: if splash weapons are more alchemical items than weapons, what sense does it make when a person can draw a warhammer faster than a bottle of napalm?

[Nefreet]

You didn't need to make a new thread. The old one will be moved eventually. Now they'll probably just merge the two threads together.

That being said, since I already answered this question, let me pose it in a different light.

If Quick Draw instead said "You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. Firearms cannot be drawn quickly using this feat", it would be clear that although Firearms are weapons, you can't draw them using this feat.

Same logic applies to alchemical splash weapons. They may be weapons, but they are ineligible to be drawn with Quick Draw.

[Fallax]

Yeah, got it. Seems a bit senseless though. I'm sure it was supposed to ban all the utility items (as well as potions, scrolls, etc.) and these weapons just got stuck in the same group and are banned from feat for no good reason :( My alchemist is sad now.

[Fallax]

Another question: alchemist adds his INT modifier on splash weapons damage, as well as splash damage. Is there a save for halving the splash damage as with bombs, or...? On "Throw splash weapon" article on SRD there is nothing mentioned about a save (except alchemist fire has DC 15 Ref for catching on fire/extinguishing fire), and neither on "Throw anything" alchemist class feature ("All alchemists gain the Throw Anything feat as a bonus feat at 1st level. An alchemist adds his Intelligence modifier to damage done with splash weapons, including the splash damage if any. ")

[Nefreet]

I do not believe there is a save, but the max splash damage you'll ever be dealing is 1 + INT (or 2 + INT in a couple circumstances), whereas your Bomb splash damage will continue to increase as you level.

And, even at level 1-2, when Alchemist Fire will be dealing the same damage as your Bombs, they still have a cost associated with them that will keep their use in check.

[Fallax]

Yeah, I knew that, but I was checking for a confirmation. These splash weapons are quite useful on lvl 1-2 when using them goes around that save check and throwing two of them (one from each hand with appropriate penalty) can do some serious dmg on the start of combat. (2+2xINT splash only) Considering that floor AC is 5, it's useful even without the feat for two weapon fighting :D

[Nefreet]

If you're looking to damage objects with your Splash weapons, be sure to read about it in the Additional Rules Chapter of the Core Rulebook.

Energy damage isn't very useful for damaging objects. Wood has Hardness 5, and Stone has Hardness 8. Since most energy damage is halved before applying Hardness, you'd have to have an INT of 22 just to deal one point of fire damage to a wooden floor.

[Fallax]

Nooo... I was planning to shoot the floor, but hurt the monsters in the splash area. With INT high enough, and enough money...it's quite a boom, don't you think?

[Nefreet]

Oh, the splash will still hurt creatures in the AoE. In fact, Alchemists armed with Holy Water are incredibly effective against Incorporeal Undead for that reason. No need to worry about hitting your party members with splashed water, either.