PFS and friendly fire

[Pink Dragon]

trollbill wrote:

I've been asking people if they mind being caught in my AoEs long before I started playing PFS. It works remarkably well. Maybe it's because I don't drop AoEs on PCs unless I think it would be worth it and they know it, but I would say people turn me down less than 5% of the time. I will frequently offer them a choice of dropping an AoE on 2 monsters or dropping it on them and 4 monsters and they almost always pick dropping it on them. I have a hard time understanding why everyone doesn't do this considering how easy it is and how well it works. I mean, sure I understand there are a few jerks out there that don't care if they incidentally kill party members or even get a sadistic joy out of it, but are they really that common?

Yes. Well said.

[Pink Dragon]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Lets not bring double secret probation paranoia into this.

Your comment makes no sense. Almost every PFS game I have played in there has been someone who made an action that others didn't like but didn't come out an say they didn't like it. That is simply being polite and not bringing it up. Most of the time it doesn't matter.

The same applies to potential PvPs. Many people will not comment on another's actions if the action imperils their character because they don't want to come across as jerks themselves. Unless a character dies as a result of the action, and even sometimes when someone's character does die, everything slid under the table as simply "that's the way it unfolded". The bitter taste still remains whether or not someone said anything about it.

[TOZ]

trollbill wrote:

I have a hard time understanding why everyone doesn't do this considering how easy it is and how well it works.

Communication is hard.

[BigNorseWolf]

Pink Dragon wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Lets not bring double secret probation paranoia into this.

Your comment makes no sense.

Well, you responded to what I meant so it made sense at least, even if the reference was carbon dated...

Quote:

Almost every PFS game I have played in there has been someone who made an action that others didn't like but didn't come out an say they didn't like it. That is simply being polite and not bringing it up. Most of the time it doesn't matter.

Right, but what you're saying is that his pinging people with his channeled energies is one of those actions. Absent any evidence of that you can't make the claim. Its entirely possible that people DON"T mind at all.

You could just as validly make the claim that people didn't like ANY action that anyone undertakes, from swinging a 2 handed sword to healing to buffing.

[Pink Dragon]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Pink Dragon wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Lets not bring double secret probation paranoia into this.

Quote:

Almost every PFS game I have played in there has been someone who made an action that others didn't like but didn't come out an say they didn't like it. That is simply being polite and not bringing it up. Most of the time it doesn't matter.

Right, but what you're saying is that his pinging people with his channeled energies is one of those actions. Absent any evidence of that you can't make the claim. Its entirely possible that people DON"T mind at all.

You could just as validly make the claim that people didn't like ANY action that anyone undertakes, from swinging a 2 handed sword to healing to buffing.

If another's action affects your character to the point of doing harm to your character, then the person doing the action should be conscious of that and ask for permission, because many (or at least some) people won't necessarily complain.

If someone else's action does not affect your character negatively (or at least obviously affect your character negatively) then there is no basis for complaint.

My point is that it is better to assume that an action that might affect another person's character negatively will actually affect the other person's character negatively, and therefore the perpetrator of he action should ask for permission, rather than assume that the action does not affect the other person's character and is therefore OK to perform.

[trollbill]

TOZ wrote:

trollbill wrote:

I have a hard time understanding why everyone doesn't do this considering how easy it is and how well it works.

Communication is hard.

It wouldn't be if everyone would stop using Charisma as a dump stat.

[BigNorseWolf]

trollbill wrote:

TOZ wrote:

trollbill wrote:

I have a hard time understanding why everyone doesn't do this considering how easy it is and how well it works.

Communication is hard.

It wouldn't be if everyone would stop using Charisma as a dump stat.

art imitates life that which has no life!

[Ferious Thune]

From the recently released Guide to Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild Organized Play:

GtPFSACGOP wrote:

Cooperative Play
First and foremost, the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game is a cooperative experience. Please let this idea guide your behavior during play. Don’t make decisions on behalf of other players, and don’t take actions that may harm another player’s character without that player’s consent. If there is a dispute over the rules, try to come to an agreement as quickly as possible; if that proves impossible, choose the path that benefits the most players. Be courteous and encourage a mutual interest in playing, not engaging in endless rules discussions. While you are enjoying the game, be considerate of the others at the table, and don’t let your actions keep them from having a good time too. In short, don’t be a jerk.

Right up front, before they even get to the Core Assumption.

I wish they would just copy that text into the PFS guide. It would clear up a lot of confusion and stop a lot of these debates/arguments.

[David Bowles]

DrakeRoberts wrote:

David Bowles wrote:

Lormyr wrote:

David Bowles wrote:

I really, really dislike the idea of ranged AE casters being able to magically target their spells in the exact perfect place.

Well, it is magic. . .

David Bowles wrote:

I don't see why there is this level of shielding from arcane mistakes, when other PC mistakes are punished at full force.

The "shielding" is not for the arcanes - they are not the ones who will roast or be persistent DC 30 save or sucked. The shield is for everyone else.

But people aren't shielded from stupid party healers. Or bad dpr builds. Or bad positioning. Or bad spell selection. Or lack of preparation. Or lack of methods of dealing with swarms. Or Kyle Baird scenarios. Just this. It makes no sense to me.

Except not one of those is actively harming your teammates. They may be passively harming by not adequately helping them, but that's not at all the same thing.

Same result, though. Which is what matters in the end.

[BigNorseWolf]

RE: magical targeting.

I know people that can walk into a room, look at it, walk out, and then hand cut the carpet to fit.

I would imagine that a lot of the training when you learn to cast fireball is target practice.

[David Bowles]

That's great for easy shots, but if there are very few safe squares available, I think the possibility for mistakes should be there.

[BigNorseWolf]

David Bowles wrote:

That's great for easy shots, but if there are very few safe squares available, I think the possibility for mistakes should be there.

Dying for other peoples mistakes isn't fun, especially when

-You go to the dungeon with the party you have, not the party you want.
-If they keep doing it, you can't stop them thanks to the no pvp rule
-This always happens right before a full attack from the bad guy

[David Bowles]

It's never been a problem. All its ever done at my tables is make arcane casters think harder. And I've been doing it this way since 3.0 came out.

And I have died for others' mistakes in PFS, just not direct damage ones. I didn't get any special shielding from those mistakes. I fail to see why this should be special snowflake.

[BigNorseWolf]

David Bowles wrote:

It's never been a problem. All its ever done at my tables is make arcane casters think harder.

The character is supposed to be a genius at calculating angles, not the player.

Quote:

And I have died for others' mistakes in PFS, just not direct damage ones. I didn't get any special shielding from those mistakes.

Mistakes of action or mistakes of inaction? That's the difference between PVP and (probably) being a twit.

Quote:

I fail to see why this should be special snowflake.

That term is as dismissive and rude as it is overused.

[Charon's Little Helper]

David Bowles wrote:

DrakeRoberts wrote:

David Bowles wrote:

Lormyr wrote:

David Bowles wrote:

I really, really dislike the idea of ranged AE casters being able to magically target their spells in the exact perfect place.

Well, it is magic. . .

David Bowles wrote:

I don't see why there is this level of shielding from arcane mistakes, when other PC mistakes are punished at full force.

The "shielding" is not for the arcanes - they are not the ones who will roast or be persistent DC 30 save or sucked. The shield is for everyone else.

But people aren't shielded from stupid party healers. Or bad dpr builds. Or bad positioning. Or bad spell selection. Or lack of preparation. Or lack of methods of dealing with swarms. Or Kyle Baird scenarios. Just this. It makes no sense to me.

Except not one of those is actively harming your teammates. They may be passively harming by not adequately helping them, but that's not at all the same thing.

Same result, though. Which is what matters in the end.

Not entirely. If only the results mattered - then accidently sneezing on someone who ended up dying from the flu because of it would get you thrown in prison for murder.