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I mean ways that give measurable amounts of electricity. I'm not interested in say lightening bolt because none could every say how many volts or joules a d6 of lightening damage is. I'm looking for methods that the output could be measured.
say a Decanter of Endless Water at the top of a water tower powering a damage at the bottom those calculations are very doable. Can anyone else come up with good ways of producing energy? The lower level the better.
Are you planning to recharge a technological item?
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First people in fantasy land would have the to understand the concept of power as we do, so you will basically need GM Fiat. If you are the GM then using a magical device or some powersource from Numeria as a starting point might work.
I plan on making some crude devises that use large amounts of power. Electric motors and such. Not sure what, but I'm sure once I get the power ideas will come.
This seems like an interesting topic to explore, so I'll leave a dot here.
The Technology Guide has rules for batteries and generators, although they are of a modern or higher tech level. The least high-tech is probably the geothermal generator, and even that is an enormous undertaking to build.
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If you want a baseline for a conversion of damage to amps, you could figure out the amount of amps needed to kill a man, then the average commoner HP. Of course, amps is only part of the equation, but it still helps.
Also, assuming that the spell lightning bolt mimics real lightning bolts:
CG lightning can occur with both positive and negative polarity. The polarity refers to the polarity of the charge in the region that originated the lightning leaders. An average bolt of negative lightning carries an electric current of 30,000 amperes (30 kA), and transfers 15 coulombs of electric charge and 500 megajoules of energy. Large bolts of lightning can carry up to 120 kA and 350 coulombs.
First people in fantasy land would have the to understand the concept of power as we do, so you will basically need GM Fiat. If you are the GM then using a magical device or some powersource from Numeria as a starting point might work.
Yeah, the whole thing is made of GM fiat.
Would be good to have something more concrete than simple GM fiat to use more generally in a Steampunk setting, possibly even including a future Pathfinder AP. This would be different from Iron Gods, which introduces alien futuristic technology. I'm thinking of an AP where an Alkenstar expatriate in Andoran or a native of Andoran envious of Alkenstar's technological advantage decides to try to develop home-grown technology, leading to a quest to build the first railroad (although that is more likely to be steam than electric, even though experiments in electric railway propulsion were attempted as early as 1834, in the dawn of the steam railway age). Of course, all sorts of forces would line up to oppose such developments, hence an AP rather than a quiet news item in the setting.
Has someone developed something a mathematical theory similar to Maxwell's Equations of Electricity and Magnetism in your world? That sort of theory has to be in place before it's theoretically possible to build, say, an electric motor. {. . .}
Not really -- Michael Faraday's Law of Induction will do just fine -- just takes longer to make it good, which, considering the glacial pace of technological evolution on Golarion, is probably still an eyeblink by Pathfinder Campaign Setting standards. Actually, this is so much so that SOMETHING must be holding back technological development on Golarion. My guess at this is that while magic, pointy-haired boss rulers and other nobles, religion (and divine intervention), and other superstition have sufficed for this purpose in most of Golarion, the one competently-run nation (which cuts out Numeria) that has decided to go technological is shot in the foot by the very thing that encouraged it to go technological in the first place: the Dead Magic and Wild Magic phenomena of the Mana Wastes (where Alkenstar is located) also hose "mundane" electricity when it is produced in amounts large enough to power technology (and even causing a risk of long-term deleterious effects for the small amounts of electricity used by Humanoid bodies -- hence the Mutants of the Mana Wastes).
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Obviously, anything that generates electricity in the real world would also generate electricity in Golarion barring a specific rule (or GM ruling) to the contrary. So you could use the water behind a dam to run a generator (as we do in the real world), or you could use water coming out of a Decanter of Endless Water to drive the same generator.
Doing physics, a Decanter of Endless Water will produce a twenty-foot (call it six meter) jet of water at a rate of 30 gallons per round. Assuming that it will produce a vertical jet capable of going up six meters, this means that the water is delivered with energy equivalent to a 20' vertical fall (since that's where it stops). Each gallon of water is about 3.8 kg, falling six meters at an acceleration of 1g, so that's about 250 joules per gallon. A watt is one joule per second, and we get 5 gallons/second, so about 1200 watts of power from one such decanter set to rock-and-roll.
That's actually quite a bit of power.
Modern real-world generators can be very efficient -- 98 or 99% -- so you'd be able to get more than enough power to run a fridge out of this contraption.
ETA: forgot to convert from rounds to seconds.
Also, adding: Even a simple mage hand cantrip is pretty effective. Every round, you can lift 5 pounds (2kg) 15 feet (4.5 meters) and drop it for power. That's 90 joules/round or 15 watts, enough to power a small light bulb.
Wasn't there a jolt cantrip somewhere around in a web enhancement or a blog or something? Maybe a wand of that, or shocking grasp/lightning bolt/call lightning?
Using Planar Binding (and variants) for Lightning Elementals (or even the raiju) might be another solution.
Finally, for a more mundane solution, you might take a look at Go to Battery of Babylon for inspiration and extrapolate/fantasy-fy it a little bit.
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The potential power is not just limited by what kind of force you can generate but by how well you can harness it. A simple windmill or a water wheel in a flowing river will provide plenty of power if you have a good enough generator hooked up to it.. Or manual labor, for that matter.
Sure in a magical setting you can do things with Reverse Gravity to get your true perpetual motion machines going. Perhaps you can find a Reverse Gravity trap and have fun with it, but it's not really necessary.
For truly insane power potential, the Rogue actually gets a chance to really shine thanks to the Stand Up rogue talent. Dropping prone and standing up both as free actions, as early as second level. Hire a few, why not. Hand them magnets, show them to your coils of wire, and let them oscillate wildly. :)
Or you can just stock up on capacitors and breed shocker lizards.
Really it's just a matter of how ridiculous you want to be.
You know, theoretically, with stand up, you could wind up passing a distance so great in such a short period of time that you literally would be moving faster then light. Assuming the GM doesn't limit free actions at least.
Also, at Twentieth level, a conjurer w/summoners charm could cast summon monster IX to get anything from the 9th level list permanently, then tell it simply to turn a wheel until you tell it otherwise, and attach it to a generator, leaving it there forever. Of course, there might be some moral problems [and Outsider Rights Activists complaining], but still, they don't need to eat, sleep, or breathe, and have high strength scores to pull heavy objects.
Planar Binding + Elementals seems like a thing.
After all, they're already used to power up golems.
A small generator and prestidigitation to keep some part of it spinning.
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Here's what you do:
Build a huge hamster wheel, and attach it to a circular rock, which will grind against another circular rock, creating sparks. This spark is used to ignite kindling directly above the two stones, making a fire that heats a huge water tank, creating steam, which pushes a huge paddle attached to a lever, which grinds two pieces of iron together, which attaches to a wire that leads to a big, circular iron tub filled with water. The water holds the electricity as a battery.
Simple.
A Shambling Mound with Stormstruck Shambler could act as a battery. Not I very good one, but it can hold a lot.
Wind Mill + Permanency Gust of Wind
Lyre of Building + gravity.
Here's what you do:
Build a huge hamster wheel, and attach it to a circular rock, which will grind against another circular rock, creating sparks. This spark is used to ignite kindling directly above the two stones, making a fire that heats a huge water tank, creating steam, which pushes a huge paddle attached to a lever, which grinds two pieces of iron together, which attaches to a wire that leads to a big, circular iron tub filled with water. The water holds the electricity as a battery.
Simple.
This and power it with an army of hamster golems :D
Bound Electrical Elementals. What else would you need?
And I know I should not ask but how exactly did your character figure out electrical motors, conductivity or current, magnetic polarities and such?
Just curious? After all there is magic. That seems so unproductive. Figure someone would have figured it out in the 10000+ year history of Golarion?
Ok, I have a method for you to make as much power as you want. It is only limited by how dizzy you are willing to get and how much tension you can harness.
Step 1 - Build your harnessing tool. Mill, alternator, generator, whatever.
Step 2 - Put the main rotating axle for your harnessing tool 20 feet in the air.
Step 3 - Get a 10 foot pole, a saddle, a wedge (varying angles are recommended to determine how much you can take), straps, glue, and rope (a LOT of the last 3)
Step 4 - Cast floating disc and use attach it to the main rotating axle with the straps, glue, and rope.
Step 5 - Attach the wedge to the top of the disc.
Step 6 - Attach the 10 foot pole to the wedge so at least 6-7 feet extend beyond and below the disc.
Step 7 - Cast grease on the 10 foot pole.
Step 8 - Stand on the disk and put the saddle on the pole.
Step 9 - Jump on the saddle.
Step 10 - You will glide down the frictionless surface of the pole and once you get 3 feet away from the disc, the disk will follow you. This will turn the main axle, generating power.
Step 11, because you never reach the end of the pole you will continue around in circles until the disc spell wears off.
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I designed a dungeon once that had dry weather and lots of wind blowing through it. Occasionally, the builders had rooms to discharge the static in it so the electric potential for visitors wouldn't get them fried. When the players found the place, the original inhabitants were long gone and the place didn't work so well. Lots of lightning damage there.
In a world where copper coils moving through magnetic field isn't possible due to lack of technology and exploration of such devices, you're going to fall back to natural static or magic.
As stated above, this is GM design territory ( I don't use Fiat as it's too often used as a derogatory comment).
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I see mention of elemental slavery but could undead not work well if not better? A mindless undead will never tire or question orders. It follows simple commands (turn this crank forever) at this point the only spell needed is mending every so often to fix the machine.
Ooh, I got one.
Energy Admixture + Wall of Fire. You've got a ring of electricity. WoF lasts for as long as you can concentrate--and so you're just summoning a massive field of electricity for hours at a time.
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Get a million commoners, each with a piece of rabbit fur, and have them pass a glass rod across the furs in one round.
Why do you need electrical energy, when you can just use magic for whatever it is that you want to do?
An actual conduit to the elemental plane of electricity (or wherever electricity elementals come from); essentially, the "electricity version" of a decanter of endless water. Pricing could be identical. You could have a variation on this in the form of a cell which can be attuned to the plane of electricity, in homage to Tesla's notion of broadcast power - mages could vie for control of a power cell via opposed spell craft checks, reminiscent of a "magical hacking duel".
A magical battery with inexhaustible power; I'd buy one!
Another option would be to create a passage (a la Ring Gates) between the sun and Golarion, using the tremendous heat to generate power via turbines - kind of "direct solar power".
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It seems funny (don't mean to offend) that all most all the methods suggested involve various magical effects, spells, etc. What about Alkenstar as mentioned above and their problem with using magic in that country. Since the Dwarves of old seem to be quite the inventors who is to say that they didn't have electrical generators stored underground or that have become buried in the desert of Alkenstar?
I would say that people need to really think outside of the box on this and go back to the early days of DC (Edison) vs AC (Tesla) and push that kind of thinking in Alkenstar. I plan to use this and more in a game I have been crafting for Alkenstar.
Anyway my two volts
A light spell generates normal light in a 20' radius. Assuming normal light is equivalent to the sunlight hitting the Earth (1000W/m2 when sun is directly overhead), and we place a wall 2m high at 6m from an item with a light spell on it, the wall would receive about 200,000W of light energy from the light spell. if that energy could converted to electricity a simple light spell could prodiuce a fair amount of electricity.
That's not how I read the Light spell, or even Daylight. I'd rule that you'd need at least Sunbeam to get any power from it, and that's a 7th level spell. The reason I would say Daylight doesn't count is because it says, "Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by such light." Also, Sunbeam specifically says, "The ultraviolet light generated by the spell deals damage to fungi, mold, oozes, and slimes just as if they were undead creatures." If Light and Daylight don't have ultraviolet light and don't affect undead, then I don't think that they'd provide solar power.
On a side note, I seem to recall there being a story a few years back about archaeologists digging up what appeared to be 5,000 year old batteries that used plant juices and copper in clay pots.
It seems funny (don't mean to offend) that all most all the methods suggested involve various magical effects, spells, etc. What about Alkenstar as mentioned above and their problem with using magic in that country. Since the Dwarves of old seem to be quite the inventors who is to say that they didn't have electrical generators stored underground or that have become buried in the desert of Alkenstar?
I would say that people need to really think outside of the box on this and go back to the early days of DC (Edison) vs AC (Tesla) and push that kind of thinking in Alkenstar. I plan to use this and more in a game I have been crafting for Alkenstar.
Anyway my two volts
Awww, come on. That's boring! Who wants coal-driven steam-turbine, when you can have zombie-powered hampster wheels?
Tesla coils, however, are a must!
A light spell generates normal light in a 20' radius. Assuming normal light is equivalent to the sunlight hitting the Earth (1000W/m2 when sun is directly overhead), and we place a wall 2m high at 6m from an item with a light spell on it, the wall would receive about 200,000W of light energy from the light spell. if that energy could converted to electricity a simple light spell could prodiuce a fair amount of electricity.That's not how I read the Light spell, or even Daylight. I'd rule that you'd need at least Sunbeam to get any power from it, and that's a 7th level spell. The reason I would say Daylight doesn't count is because it says, "Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by such light." Also, Sunbeam specifically says, "The ultraviolet light generated by the spell deals damage to fungi, mold, oozes, and slimes just as if they were undead creatures." If Light and Daylight don't have ultraviolet light and don't affect undead, then I don't think that they'd provide solar power.
On a side note, I seem to recall there being a story a few years back about archaeologists digging up what appeared to be 5,000 year old batteries that used plant juices and copper in clay pots.
Photovoltaic cells don't use infrared or ultraviolet lights, they really use the visible light spectrum to make electricity.
The ancient batteries has been a point if contention because it is unknown what they were used to power, but yes, you could make a battery with a potato, some copper, and some zinc (or you could replace the potato with a clay pot full of fruit juice,) if you wanted to.
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Exactly we are thinking either magical or with in the confines of our own (edison sorta) electrical system.
Look at Alkenstar they would be a huge place to develop solar panels and wind turbines, hell their entire machine works for their factories could be 100% natural energy powered, since magic tends to be more of a bother than anything.
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Use the planar travel shenanigans to come to earth[feature in the Reign of Winter AP, IIRC], as a race that lives a long time, then wait until a website called Paizo.com shows up. Make a device that generates electrical power every time the words "OP" "Munchkin" "Power-gamer" "Min-maxer" or "15-minute work day" are written, and another device that stores said electricity for a while. Start a caravan going back and forth between earth and golarion.
Exactly we are thinking either magical or with in the confines of our own (edison sorta) electrical system.
Look at Alkenstar they would be a huge place to develop solar panels and wind turbines, hell their entire machine works for their factories could be 100% natural energy powered, since magic tends to be more of a bother than anything.
Well, that's the thing I was talking about above: Why HASN'T Alkenstar done this? My take on it is that the same phenomenon that makes magic unreliable to unusable in their part of the world (Mana Wastes) also hoses "mundane" electricity. Thus, the Mana Wastes are equivocal towards the development of technology: They confer great desire, but trip it up in performance(*).
(*) To paraphrase Shakespeare.