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"Out of town anarchists taking over local protest groups and plotting violent destruction" - is a made up fantasy. It is propaganda the cops use before every protest, but it's just a lie designed to justify police excess. I have known many anarchists, and they are generally planning a vegan sausagefest, not mayhem. Most are highly politically aware, and understand that engaging the police in violence is exactly what the police want, not what the protestors want. People don't go to protests if their goal is just to destroy stuff or steal without political motivation- too many cops around, and almost no other protesters will tolerate it....
My first-hand experience in protests and demonstrations is admittedly limited, but the actual people trying to provoke a violent police response usually seem to be undercover law enforcement posing as "anarchists", "environmentalists", or whatever group needs discrediting.
Edit: Nekkid false flag flying?
Ferguson P.D. doesn't have that many African-Americans.
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I have known many anarchistsAnd your experiences are your experiences, but you cannot take anecdotal evidence and apply it to every similar situation...
It just doesn't work that way.
Or we could just look at the arrest records, which are public record.
Ferguson P.D. doesn't have that many African-Americans.
I wasn't aware that they were the only department operating in Ferguson these past two weeks.
I'm not asking anyone to take my experiences as evidence. If you care about it one way or another, look for yourself. You will find numerous examples of the police and prosecutors "busting" anarchists, but then getting laughed out of court.
This isn't some new thing or isolated case. This has been going on for at least ten years now, and is very well documented.
"[Missouri State Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal] reported that there was an “outside influence” causing some of the unrest in Ferguson. “We’re going to have to find ways to calm down this community while getting out some of the negative impact. And we have anarchists here, which we do not welcome in this community” she said. Chappelle-Nadal also seemed to agree with Carlson’s assertion that some of the protesters were from “out of town.” "
Miami Model:
**Public relations, "information warfare", newspeak/spin:**
"terrorists/violent protesters coming" vs "well trained officers".
"event meaningful target for terrorism."
"police will protect the right to protest."
"anarchists and criminal elements", dramatic Seattle WTO or London imagery.
display of confiscated "weapons" prove malintent.
"unpermitted protests can continue" due to police good will.
independent media targeted, cameras, video confiscated.
The Highway PD and the National Guard weren't there that first weekend that the convenience store was looted and burnt down.
NPR- Court fines and fees fuel anger.
More proof of the class war being waged in this country.
It's like they want to turn all of the poor people into debtor slaves.It's a pity they couldn't all just do a different sort of protest. Where everyone refuses to pay and then they flood into the prison system costing the community of Ferguson SO MUCH MONEY that they can't even afford to pay their own police force anymore. Trust me if this is all about greed that would be a protest heard all the way to the heart of the system, those practices would be cancelled immediately by the corrupt government types who want that money. But organizing such a thing wouldn't probably be very doable.
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As much as I like the idea of a jail "sit-in", I think that tactic stopped working once we entered the tough-on-crime era. The problem is that detaining people, especially for a period of a few days, is just not that expensive. It gets even cheaper if you do a really half-assed and crappy job of running a prison. I don't think you could ask people to spend more then a day or two under those conditions. Also, I'm guessing that since 9/11, they aren't strapped for cash. If they really need the money, Homeland SSecurity would love the chance to erect some new detention facilities.
Sadly, it seems like none of the politicians from the president to their local council are are aligning themselves with the people of Ferguson, and many are aligning with the police. I think the police will back off until the spotlight fades, then it's payback time for making them look bad!
I don't think that's the best way to go about it vengeance doesn't work well when the spotlight is off. It would be better to keep the pressure on now while it's fresh in everyone's mind.
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That's one of the areas that needs serious reform: where fines and taxes go to. This is a good example, why on earth would the money from traffic tickets go to the police to hand out the citations? Shouldn't it go to the state DOT? Same with criminal forfeiture. It just creates perverse incentives for police.
Another example is in education. In most states (if not all?) that I know of, public schools are financed by property taxes at a local level, meaning regions with higher property values get better schools/better equipment/higher teacher:student ratios, etc. Which is, of course, the reverse of what it should be where the poorer children need more individual attention. Even if you don't think that progressive policy is right, I can't even fathom the argument that justifies anything other than a flat $/student across an entire state.
I apologize if that derails it, but I see similarities in those policies.
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As much as I like the idea of a jail "sit-in", I think that tactic stopped working once we entered the tough-on-crime era. The problem is that detaining people, especially for a period of a few days, is just not that expensive. It gets even cheaper if you do a really half-assed and crappy job of running a prison. I don't think you could ask people to spend more then a day or two under those conditions. Also, I'm guessing that since 9/11, they aren't strapped for cash. If they really need the money, Homeland SSecurity would love the chance to erect some new detention facilities.In Ferguson? Police are big business. The police write an inordinate number of minor tickets and bring in ton of money in fines. Along with a bunch of tricks to keep adding additional charges.
Happens everywhere. Police are often employed to raise funds in a blitz of policing.
There is no nuance. Apparently I did say "All cops are racist pigs". I'm pretty sure I didn't say "white devil" though.
So I'll go back to my earlier question: If racism really isn't a factor in police treatment of black people anymore and it's really just all based on how black people behave, when did this switch happen? We can all agree that at one point the police were actually enforcing racist laws and treating black people badly for that reason. When and how did that switch to police having in general no racial biases but somehow still continued disproportionately arresting and locking up black people. Even increasing the percentage.
Because there doesn't really seem to me to be a time when they weren't taken the brunt of the justice system. If there was, I'd like to know when.
Was it a sudden shift? Or a gradual slide, where a smaller and smaller percentage of the harassment was racial and more and more was justified by blacks being more criminal?
Couldn't find the book I wanted to read next (or a copy of How the Irish Became White for that matter), so I read the Introduction and first chapter of Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness and, although I'm not sure yet, I think the answer to your question might be in there somewhere.
Sadly, it seems like none of the politicians from the president to their local council are are aligning themselves with the people of Ferguson, and many are aligning with the police. I think the police will back off until the spotlight fades, then it's payback time for making them look bad!
To be honest, I doubt the people of Ferguson are monolithic in their opinions. I would guess that there are many that are fine with the police activities. I wouldn't be surprised if those people also tended to vote more often, thus politicians might be "playing" to their bases.
What distinction do you draw? (Other than the obvious one that someone can be prejudiced about things other than race.)Mixing up the terms prejudice and racism.
Happens every damn time.Racism is prejudice against a person's race codified.
Any given person can be, and usually is prejudiced about something. This either comes from too many coincidences/life experience, or BS prejudices passed on from others that you accept at face value because the source was trusted.
When it's a group of people in power that share a specific prejudice passing laws against a specific race, that's racism.
I could be wrong, but this is the difference to me.
Is it only "passing laws"? Or can a prejudice supported by a sufficiently large number of people in a less formal fashion still be racism? To take an extreme example, much of the activity of the Klan at various times was illegal, just socially acceptable. Lynchings weren't legal.
Redlining is far more than a personal prejudice, but wasn't legally enforced. And in various forms persisted at least up until the housing market collapse.
I used passing laws as an example of codifying a situation.
I think enforced prejudice by people in any position of power is racism.
On an individual or very small group basis it's prejudice, even if that individual is a representative of a group in power.
Cop pulling over someone for driving while black = prejudice
Redlining by a mortgage company = racism
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Cop shooting a black man because he thinks black men are scary dangerous thugs: Prejudice.
To be fair, cops HATE it when you're bigger than they are and its obvious that enforcing their authority by knocking your head around isn't going to work.
black guy resisting arrest after a strong arm robbery, taunting and then rushing the attempted arresting officer who has a gun drawn over 20 paces away = stupid.
Hell, anyone doing that is stupid. Stupid is color blind.
It was early in the movie, and the scene was Harold (Chinese dude) being picked on by his coworkers
My Korean friends have described a cultural legacy of hating all Chinese WAY worse than they hate any whites. Calling one of them "Chinese" is like someone calling me a "Nazi" because I have a Jewish name.
black guy resisting arrest, taunting and then rushing the attempted arresting officer who has a gun drawn over 20 paces away = stupid.Assuming that's what happened. Always believing the leaked version of the cop's story = stupid.
Always late to the opposition's line, I didn't realize they went ahead with the Rhino defense. Further googling led to a handy he-said/she-said chart whose accuracy I couldn't vouch for:
It was early in the movie, and the scene was Harold (Chinese dude) being picked on by his coworkersMy Korean friends have described a cultural legacy of hating all Chinese WAY worse than they hate any whites. Calling one of them "Chinese" is like someone calling me a "Nazi" because I have a Jewish name.
deepest apologies there, again.
deepest apologies there, again.
No apologies needed. You and I are cool, Free -- you could say a lot worse than that to me and I'd let it slide. I spoke in case you meet up with anyone like my old friends -- nice guys, all, until someone hit that sore spot, and then they could be some seriously mean SOBs.
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black guy resisting arrest after a strong arm robbery, taunting and then rushing the attempted arresting officer who has a gun drawn over 20 paces away = stupid.
Hell, anyone doing that is stupid. Stupid is color blind.
The problem is that its also so stupid that it strains credibility.
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I haven't been following the events (or this thread) super closely, but I saw this and needed to remark on it:
So, police threatened to kill a member of the media
(on camera), while pointing a gun at them.
Now take the camera part out and THEN figure out what the official report would have been.
"Disingenuous members of the liberal media embedded with the rioters risked the lives of innocent people by attempting to escalate an already dangerous situation by provoking the police officers. Their attempts were unsuccessful thanks to the officers considerable restraint"
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The problem is that its also so stupid that it strains credibility.black guy resisting arrest after a strong arm robbery, taunting and then rushing the attempted arresting officer who has a gun drawn over 20 paces away = stupid.
Hell, anyone doing that is stupid. Stupid is color blind.
Come on BNW, everyone knows that black teenage males are all so dumb, violent and hopped up on cheap cigarillos and rap music that they'll snap and turn into foaming berserker animals at the least excuse.
Just ask the Fergusson Police.
[/sarcasm]
black guy resisting arrest after a strong arm robbery, taunting and then rushing the attempted arresting officer who has a gun drawn over 20 paces away = stupid.
Hell, anyone doing that is stupid. Stupid is color blind.
The problem is that its also so stupid that it strains credibility.
I suppose so, but Mr. Brown's wounds don't exactly counter it, either.
Come on BNW, everyone knows that black teenage males are all so dumb, violent and hopped up on cheap cigarillos and rap music that they'll snap and turn into foaming berserker animals at the least excuse.
[/sarcasm]
And reefer! Don' forget that if there are traces of pot in your system that means you're obviously under the effects of the reefer madness!
I know terrible injustices happen to non-whites all over on a daily basis.
That doesn't mean in this particular instance that's what happened.
I suppose so, but Mr. Brown's wounds don't exactly counter it, either.The problem is that its also so stupid that it strains credibility.black guy resisting arrest after a strong arm robbery, taunting and then rushing the attempted arresting officer who has a gun drawn over 20 paces away = stupid.
Hell, anyone doing that is stupid. Stupid is color blind.
Or confirm it.
And don't forget, the police had their autopsy report before that story got leaked.
Of course it's a police cover-up. The truth is so boring.
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I suppose so, but Mr. Brown's wounds don't exactly counter it, either.
Its more consistent with having your hands up, exposing your arms to the line of fire, than in a rhino charge which would present almost no profile for the forearms.
The pause in his shooting doesn't help either.
Neither the implausibility of the alleged actions nor the forensics or the unexplained pause are themselves enough to contradict the "friend of a friends" version of events, but each one is out of synch enough to present a pretty damning picture in aggregate.
Furgeson police have gotten caught in so many blatant cover ups (assault for bleeding on a uniform, intimidating and arresting news reporters, "no we didn't use tear gas") that a cover up is almost to be expected, rather than something straining credibility. I mean if thats how they act when they KNOW the camera is watching them with people they know buy ink by the barrel, how on earth do they act when no one that will be believed or listened to is watching?
Of course it's a police cover-up. The truth is so boring.
But none of us — on either side — know what the actual truth is. We have two wildly disparate stories to try and reconcile.
Absent the actual truth, our skepticism of the Ferguson PD is at least equally as reasonable as your apparent faith in it, considering the pattern of behavior they've demonstrated since this whole thing began.
Of course it's a police cover-up. The truth is so boring.But none of us — on either side — know what the actual truth is. We have two wildly disparate stories to try and reconcile.
Absent the actual truth, our skepticism of the Ferguson PD is at least equally as reasonable as your apparent faith in it, considering the pattern of behavior they've demonstrated since this whole thing began.
Fair enough.
It was early in the movie, and the scene was Harold (Chinese dude) being picked on by his coworkersMy Korean friends have described a cultural legacy of hating all Chinese WAY worse than they hate any whites. Calling one of them "Chinese" is like someone calling me a "Nazi" because I have a Jewish name.
Interesting.
In recent history I would imagine they'd hate being called Japanese more. While it's true that there have been many historical atrocities visited on the Korean people by China, the worst acts of state savagery have been committed by Japan and are in living memory (WWII, slave labor, comfort women, etc.)| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Of course it's a police cover-up. The truth is so boring.I suppose so, but Mr. Brown's wounds don't exactly counter it, either.The problem is that its also so stupid that it strains credibility.black guy resisting arrest after a strong arm robbery, taunting and then rushing the attempted arresting officer who has a gun drawn over 20 paces away = stupid.
Hell, anyone doing that is stupid. Stupid is color blind.
Or confirm it.
And don't forget, the police had their autopsy report before that story got leaked.
And that's why there are protests in Ferguson. The fact that the dead unarmed teenager has to prove he wasn't doing anything that he deserved to be killed for instead of the police officer having to prove he was justified in shooting the suspect.