Confusion Spell: how do you dictate the entry "deal 1d8+STR damage to self with item in hand" if the character in question isn't holding anything?

[Sanjiv]

Taken from an earlier thread: "how do you dictate the entry "deal 1d8+STR damage to self with item in hand" if the character in question isn't holding anything? Do they deal more damage to themselves with their fist than they would otherwise be capable of inflicting? Is it non-lethal damage in this case?"

[Lord Foul II]

Well think of it like how you deal more damage when the opponent doesn't resist, like in a coup de gras.

[coyote6]

I had one character beat his head against a stone column.

[Zhangar]

Or eyeball gouging.

All sorts of terrible stuff you can do to yourself while unarmed if magically bonkers.

[Imbicatus]

Clawing at you eyes, choking yourself, and so on.

You can still do lethal damage with an unarmed strike without the improved unarmed strike feat normally, just at a -4 to hit.

[Nothing]

The character attempts to complete the action to the best of their ability. If this means picking up a rock or drawing a potion to bash over their heads, then that's what happens.

If there is literally no object that the victim could possibly get their hands on (standing naked and alone on a huge sheet of glass), then the character does nothing but babble incoherently, as the spell says.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Sanjiv wrote:

Taken from an earlier thread: "how do you dictate the entry "deal 1d8+STR damage to self with item in hand" if the character in question isn't holding anything? Do they deal more damage to themselves with their fist than they would otherwise be capable of inflicting? Is it non-lethal damage in this case?"

The way I see it, the Confusion condition represents an unstable presence of mind among the creature. (Most of the time, it is from a mind-affecting effect, and creatures who are immune to those are most likely immune to confusion.) In real life, one of the things that our nervous system and muscular system work in tandem on is the ability to make sure we don't hyperextend our muscles, or utilize so much force so as to hurt ourselves because of it. It's this same philosophy that goes behind the prospect of being unable to tickle ourselves (though this is not shown in other people).

When you become confused, you aren't in complete control of your mental faculties, and this tandem is but one of the fold. Since your mental faculties can no longer control whether or not your muscles apply their 'self-restriction,' this unbridled power shows when you hurt yourself simply by applying too much force than normal.

That being said, I wouldn't use that outcome, since it says you deal that damage "with item in hand." No item in hand? Then how can you deal that damage when you have no item in your hand's possession to deal that damage with?

It really boils to GM FIAT. Some GMs might enforce it anyway through some flavorful aspect (though they'd be wrong on the RAW aspect of the rule), others might simply have you punch yourself, and you deal unarmed strike damage as non-lethal, or re-roll the percentile for some other effect.