Hi guys,
Firstable I created this thread not for the troll, but for some advices and maths. Do you think that the Arcanist make the Wizard and the Sorcerer weak? Or at least he's far better than them? He can do almost anything (counterspell as immediate action... Lol).
So should I autorize him at my table? Here are the rules in my campaign:
- Adventure Path or module
- 25 point buy
- No dip, only solo classing or multiclassing (2 maximum) for a prestige classe.
- APG, UC & UM but no other books, only core race, racial trait but no prédilection bonus.
- No Rogue (too weak), no summoner (too strong)
- One archétype maximum, and you need a good roleplay.
- No ressurection of any kind. Dead means dead.
- Weapon finesse give dex to dommage for one handed weapon finessable.
Do you think the Arcanist has a spot in here? I'm affraid of him... All my players have a lots of fun with my rules for now on, enough options, Monk and fighters have no problems with the 25 points but no dip limitate the munchkins.
I'm affraid the Arcanist is far too powerful for my games, what do you think? Any feed-back?
Again, it's not a troll. I love Paizo work, and I'm ok with people who trying to make the best build, but I'm concerned about this class.
And I'm not english so please guys forget my mistakes! :)
You are 100% understandable in English! It's all good.
My tenancy is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Your players are happy with the world you provide them, and you are happy with how things are flowing, so my initial answer is no.
However, if one of your players wants to introduce the Arcanist, and you trust the player, let them try it, but let them know (out-of-character) that if the class seems to imbalance the game, you might need to retire that character.
Or, how about you make an enemy NPC as the Arcanist, and see how it does in your world?
Edited to fix typos
I think the arcanist is definitely better than the wizard or the sorcerer, but that probably won't break your game. What might break your game is counter-spelling as an immediate action; as others have pointed it, that could shut down some caster-type encounters.
I would have said yes, but have you seen what Wizards get in this book?
Thank you for the answer! A NPC good be a good way to try, nice idea!
I don't know but all the other new class seems ok for me (Bloodrager and Barbarian are a good match on my opinion) but this one scared me (and the roleplay kills me... It's like go play Elminster!)
What do you think of the other classes? I've already houserule that the Swashbuckler can use weapon finesse with all the one handed slashing and piercing weapon to avoid that slashing grace fiasco and give him something more than my version of weapon finesse.
Anyway Thanks for the idea! Any other opinions?
Keep cool and polite please :)!
And not yet Athaleon I'll go Check that!
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No, an arcanist is definitely not stronger than a wizard.
The wizard gets a substantial amount of spells of the next highest level for 40% of levels. Another 50% of levels, they share the same highest spell level...but the wizard is strictly better at spellcasting in the sense that all the wizard has to do to equal the arcanist is to memorize the same spell N times. That's because the arcanist can only memorize 1 spell of his highest spell level 1-18.
Also, if the wizard is a specialist and has the bonded item feature as well as competitive INT, the wizard typically can cast 4 spells at the highest spell level the level he receives it.
All the hype about the arcanist is hype. All the arcanist has is an extra bag of miscellaneous tricks. He won't keep up with a well-designed wizard.
I think that evaluating only the highest level spell misses a huge part of the power of spellcasting. Spells of levels below your highest matter, a lot, in fact I tend to believe that the raft of other spells collectively have a significantly greater influence upon the course of a typical adventuring day than the handful of highest level spells do.
That said, I wouldn't be willing to call the arcanist stronger than the wizard without taking it for a spin a few times first. Making an arcanist NPC and throwing it at the party is a time-tested way for you to get a feel for a class in your game.
There is some merit to the highest spell level thing. Playing odd levels as an oracle or sorcerer can be pretty sad.
Highest spell level is definitely a factor, and does give the wizard an advantage. However, the Arcanist gets a lot of other bonuses to compensate for the spell level difference.
I haven't gotten to look at the ACG yet, but I offer some general advice.
Give it a try, on the stipulation that if it starts to imbalance the game, it WILL be retired.
This is a general rule I've always used, to grand effect. Anything new that comes out, I'll let someone who's interested in using it bring it to the table... Under those conditions.
This lets you evaluate things on a case by case basis. If something starts to seem over powered, take the time to audit it after the session. Examine the character sheet, the class itself, see if everything is copacetic. If it is, require the player to change that one aspect of the build that breaks it, at this time.
If it breaks your particular game as a whole, give it a blanket ban. If it's one particular aspect, such as an exploit, house rule it out or change it, and see how it works afterwards. This way, you can continue to evaluate the rest of the class in play.
75% of the time, god builds and over powered options that seem OMFGBROKE! on paper, are actually not all that great when the dice start rolling.
Bonus points if you can figure out a way to keep the potentially breaking option in, while modifying your game a bit to make it not-as-broke... But since you're AP or Module only, that's probably not an option.
There is some merit to the highest spell level thing. Playing odd levels as an oracle or sorcerer can be pretty sad.
I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all, just that considering only that factor when evaluating relative spellcasting potency is greatly overstating the case.
As for oracle, I felt the delayed access blues the most at 3rd level. Subsequent levels it was much less significant.