Don't panic- this is just a question.
I have heard recently that there was talk of WotC pulling the OGL if a 4th Ed were to surface. Whether it is true or not, I cannot say.
My question is whether or not they could do this. As far as I know with most open source things, once the source is put out there, it cannot be pulled back; it now belongs to everyone.
Does this apply to the OGL? Anyone have any idea?
Couldn't they release 4e without updating the SRD? In which case third parties are left producing products for a now defunct rule set?
Essentially they can't revoke the old OGL, but they could make a new edition that does not make use of the OGL.
No 4e OGL means licencing for 3rd party 4e products.
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Essentially they can't revoke the old OGL, but they could make a new edition that does not make use of the OGL.
No 4e OGL means licencing for 3rd party 4e products.
Exactly. The OGL for 3rd edition would probably remain, depending on the language of the OGL itself, so other companies could still utilize 3rd edition rules, but Wizards could easily not make the 4th edition rules open source, meaning that people would have to pay to use them.
The trademark stuff mentioned above doesn't apply here - trademarks are indicators that a product is created by a certain company, like the paizo.com logo in the upper left corner of the screen here. The OGL is a copyright issue. What Wizards has done is granted a free license to other companies who wish to use its rules, not abandoned its rights in the material altogether.
That's really what I want I know. That OGL 3e would still be available.
I guess looking at 3.5 I have a hard time seeing what they could concievably change, so I think there might be a huge leap into something new.
The way I see it, if WotC releases 4e, and worst case scenario, it is lame and unusable, the OGL is a saving grace. Other companies could keep running with the ball, producing good stuff for the good system.
Even if 4e is awesome, there will likely still be a market for 3.5, so other companies can still produce stuff for it.
I guess looking at 3.5 I have a hard time seeing what they could concievably change, so I think there might be a huge leap into something new.
Look to the D20 Modern ruleset, instead of the old generic classes, Mage, Fighter, Rouge, Priest, A character would be known for a trait, Strong Hero, Dexterous hero, Dedicated hero etc.
It would make the fantasy setting even less sterotypical (spell casting strong heroes for example)
It would remove D&D from its origins (Gary who?)
It would open the market for even more useless character concepts PrC classes due to its column a, column b environment.
and lastly it would open the doors to other genres Supers = Eberron, fantasy = Realms /Greyhawk, Horror = Ravenloft, Sci Fi Dragonstar / Spelljammer, and lastly Crossovers Spelljammer/ Planescape.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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The OGL is an enforceable legal contract which grants a license to use IP rights. The termination provision states that it is only revocable if the party is in breach. Wizards can't revoke the license because there is no such provision allowing them to do so.
Trademark has next to nothing to do with this. Trademark law is specifically for marks used to identify products. The d20 logo is a trademark. AC, BAB, and all that stuff is not trademarked, but it is protected by copyright. You cannot lose a trademark by licensing its use, but you can lose it by failing to stop persons from using it w/o a license. The d20 logo is no where near being a generic term (what would it be a generic term for? Table-top roleplaying?)
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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That's really what I want I know. That OGL 3e would still be available.
I guess looking at 3.5 I have a hard time seeing what they could concievably change, so I think there might be a huge leap into something new.
The way I see it, if WotC releases 4e, and worst case scenario, it is lame and unusable, the OGL is a saving grace. Other companies could keep running with the ball, producing good stuff for the good system.
Even if 4e is awesome, there will likely still be a market for 3.5, so other companies can still produce stuff for it.
Yup. The OGL set a very high standard for 4e. If Wizards can't convince consumers to make the switch, 3.5 products will still be available indefinitely under the OGL.
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Yup. The OGL set a very high standard for 4e. If Wizards can't convince consumers to make the switch, 3.5 products will still be available indefinitely under the OGL.That's really what I want I know. That OGL 3e would still be available.
I guess looking at 3.5 I have a hard time seeing what they could concievably change, so I think there might be a huge leap into something new.
The way I see it, if WotC releases 4e, and worst case scenario, it is lame and unusable, the OGL is a saving grace. Other companies could keep running with the ball, producing good stuff for the good system.
Even if 4e is awesome, there will likely still be a market for 3.5, so other companies can still produce stuff for it.
Woo Hoo!!!!!
I'll leave it at that one Homer Simpsonesque celebration.
The OGL set a very high standard for 4e. If Wizards can't convince consumers to make the switch, 3.5 products will still be available indefinitely under the OGL.
Yeah, OGL has been an important marketing element for WotC. There are those in the company that understand its value to Wizards and the industry -- I don't know how many of those people are decision makers, though.
Revocation would certainly feed any fire in terms of buyers rejecting 4/e in favor of 3.5 products. It would be bad for the industry and definitely bad for WotC's sales figures.
IMO
Jack
I just wanted to point out that anything that falls under the OGL can not be licensed. I was working on a d20 Modern game using D&D classes and such, and sent things some emails to Wizards and learned that quite a few things would be unused without a license and even then licenses were only given out to 'established' companies.
Wizards may not be able to revoke a license, but they can stop new stuff from being licensed, forcing all new products to turn to 4e or never see the light of day.
I am unsure what you mean by "licensing."
The stuff in the SRD can be used, printed, and changed freely, and all you want. I can print it like it is and sell it.
Alot of things like the XP charts, mind flayers, and Eberron cannot be used.
So what I am curious about is what you mean by WotC being able to stop you from "licensing." If you use anything outside the SRD, yeah, they can hold it over you. And they can object to adult material.
...I think you guys need to seriously go read up on Copyright law...you might be surprised...
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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...I think you guys need to seriously go read up on Copyright law...you might be surprised...
I'm an attorney. I've read up on, among other things, copyright, trademark, and licensing law. Those aren't my areas of practice, but I know more than enough to hold my own in this sort of debate.
Sebastian 4TW!
Tell us, oh legal one, is my assertion correct?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Tell us, oh legal one, is my assertion correct?
Uh-oh. Now I'm going to have to start putting in disclaimers about how my posts do not constitute legal advice. ;-)
I would say you hit the nail on the head. The OGL is a license to use WotC copyrighted material. The term "use" is specifically defined in the license to include all sorts of things (Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material). Even if they amend the license, there is a provision stating that you can use prior versions of the license and prior materials designated as Open Game Content under those licenses, which makes it very difficult to put the genie back in the bottle that way.
The SRD is specifically designated as Open Game Content, so it's out and it stays out.
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...I think you guys need to seriously go read up on Copyright law...you might be surprised...I'm an attorney. I've read up on, among other things, copyright, trademark, and licensing law. Those aren't my areas of practice, but I know more than enough to hold my own in this sort of debate.
In addition, I had a business law class in 1990, which I got a B in, and you'll notice I am mysteriously silent on the whole matter being discussed. Ergo everything is as it should be.
Carry on, councellor.
Tell us, oh legal one, is my assertion correct?Uh-oh. Now I'm going to have to start putting in disclaimers about how my posts do not constitute legal advice. ;-)
I would say you hit the nail on the head. The OGL is a license to use WotC copyrighted material. The term "use" is specifically defined in the license to include all sorts of things (Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material). Even if they amend the license, there is a provision stating that you can use prior versions of the license and prior materials designated as Open Game Content under those licenses, which makes it very difficult to put the genie back in the bottle that way.
The SRD is specifically designated as Open Game Content, so it's out and it stays out.
My skill bonus for Knowledge: Arcane Copyright Law is -6; nevertheless, I agree with you.
*hardcore pwnage*
Yes.
Good, so I got me some SRD, and it lasts forever.
I hope 4e is VERY good, then.