Raging Barbarians and Spell Trigger items.

[Michael Haneline]

Can multiclass Barbarians use spell trigger items while in a rage?
I know in 3.5 that was against the rules, but in PF it just says they can't do anything that requires patience or concentration. I know concentration isn't required, but "patience" is very vague.

[Zhayne]

Can't see any reason why not. A standard action, one-word point-and-shoot doesn't seem like it'd require much patience or concentration at all.

He'll have to multiclass, of course, since UMD is a Charisma skill.

[Dragonchess Player]

Michael Haneline wrote:

Can multiclass Barbarians use spell trigger items while in a rage?

Ambiguous.

Below are the relevant quotes from the Core Rulebook:

Core Rulebook wrote:

While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

Core Rulebook wrote:

Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

Core Rulebook wrote:

Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Core Rulebook wrote:

Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that's left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can't already cast the spell, there's a chance he'll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action (or the spell's casting time, whichever is longer) and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

Personally, even though the character isn't casting or even "finishing" a spell, it must require some kind of mental focus (although not called "concentration," since activating a wand doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity) in addition to the single word that must be spoken. Otherwise, anyone could just speak the activation word for the wand and have it work without Use Magic Device. IMO, that's enough to prevent wand activation in a rage.

To answer your question, though: Yes... with the Moment of Clarity rage power.

Core Rulebook wrote:

Moment of Clarity (Ex): The barbarian does not gain any benefits or take any of the penalties from rage for 1 round. Activating this power is a swift action. This includes the penalty to Armor Class and the restriction on what actions can be performed. This round still counts against her total number of rounds of rage per day. This power can only be used once per rage.

[Michael Haneline]

Zhayne wrote:

Can't see any reason why not. A standard action, one-word point-and-shoot doesn't seem like it'd require much patience or concentration at all.

He'll have to multiclass, of course, since UMD is a Charisma skill.

Right, that's why I said multiclass barbarian in the original post. Was thinking Barbarian/Sorcerer.

[Zhayne]

My bad, overlooked that.

[Michael Haneline]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Michael Haneline wrote:

Can multiclass Barbarians use spell trigger items while in a rage?

Ambiguous.

Below are the relevant quotes from the Core Rulebook:

Core Rulebook wrote:

While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

Core Rulebook wrote:

Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

Core Rulebook wrote:

Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Core Rulebook wrote:

Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that's left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can't already cast the spell, there's a chance he'll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action (or the spell's casting time, whichever is longer) and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

...

I disagree on the concentration part because concentration is an actual rule dynamic. A variety of circumstances require a concentration check if you try casting a spell: being attacked, standing some place shaky, etc. No such check is required with a wand. Casting with a wand doesn't even provoke an attack of op.

So really the only unclear part is "patience".

[FLite]

From a very simple RAW perspective.

a wand can be used by a character whose class has the spell on their list, even if they, themselves, cannot cast spells.

a raging multiclass barbarian is a character who has the spell on their list, but who cannot (currently) cast spells.

sounds like a yes to me.

[Michael Haneline]

So this is really just one of those "your mileage will vary on the GM" sort of deals, huh?

[Zhayne]

Basically, yeah.