.@Devs/Alpha Testers
My question concerning combat.
Here is the scenario.
Take two exact same classes will call them wizards. They both engage in combat with no interference from a 3rd player or more players. They both have the same gear and similar builds for combat. What determines the winner in this circumstance? Lucky Dice rolls?
Goblin Squad Member
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What determines the winner in this circumstance? Lucky Dice rolls?
Most likely, it will come down to who got in the first hit. It's a really interesting question to me whether the Wand user will beat the Staff user because of the delay between Staff attacks. At the moment, I'm being lazy and just using the Staff because it has better range, but I worry that I'm setting myself up for failure by doing so.
Over time, it will become more and more important to properly utilize your build, so that you're applying effects that you can capitalize on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Lucky Dice rolls probably won't make a huge difference at the levels we currently see in Alpha. It's pretty easy to do max damage pretty consistently. So, while the dice might make a difference every once in a while, I think it's more likely that the First Strike will more consistently make the difference.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There's also a fair bit of player skill and PVP experience in that equation. Someone who is actively moving in and out of range, using barriers to block line of sight, and choosing tactically advantageous attacks will have a significant advantage over someone who's just standing still with his finger on "1".
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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For wizards of identical build, first strike will determine victory. That's because wizards have few abilities that are defensive or buffing in nature. For clerics, choices about how to distribute time and stamina between attacks, defensive buffs, and heals will be more important. Fighters, even those with identical feats slotted, there is a large space for timing knockbacks, interrupts, and other effects.
When allowing for reasonable variation between characters, I think there are cases where the optimal strategy varies; trying to kite a bow fighter or charger is worse than useless, but a character without a charge slotted or ranged weapon might be kited. A charging fighter might be countered by melee range spells (negating Master Of Opportunity feats), shield of faith, and defensive spells, while a different build might use Evasion and longbow attacks to keep out of melee range of that cleric.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not having played in the alpha, I would hazard a guess that the winner will be whichever wizard successfully lands a crowd control spell on the other first. once wizard b is immobilized wizard a can continue to spam damaging spells at him, and re-new the crowd control spell before the first wears off.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There's also a fair bit of player skill and PVP experience in that equation. Someone who is actively moving in and out of range, using barriers to block line of sight, and choosing tactically advantageous attacks will have a significant advantage over someone who's just standing still with his finger on "1".
This is true, but not as true as you'd expect. For example, there simply are no barriers to line of sight at the moment. Also, "choosing tactically advantageous attacks" is what I meant by "properly utilize your build".
As for ducking in and out of range, that might make a significant difference. We know that if you're out of range when the spell completes, it does no damage. I think that if my target moves back at the same rate I move forward, I'll still hit them - that is, as long as they're in range of where I am when the spell lands, they don't have to be in rage of where I was when I cast it. It's also worth noting that activating an attack while your target is out of range simply queues it up to fire immediately once you're in range.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Assuming equal player skill, then first hit definitely helps. Willingness to use consumables/expendables will help as well.
There is some variation due to the RNG. I'm waiting on a long processing job to quantify this for the new partial hit scaling, but the general trend is that the faster you can kill eachother the more 'swingy' the fight will be. The longer it takes to kill eachother the more the law of large numbers takes over and the less variability the RNG adds.
Bear in mind that different armor is good against different damage types. Wizards in cloth will be better protected against energy damage than they are against physical damage. Fighters in heavy armor will be better protected against physical damage than they are against energy damage. That means that a fighter vs. fighter or wizard vs wizard fight will be against someone who is likely well protected against their opponent's damage type. Wizard vs fighter is the extreme of very little relevant resistance on either side.
More resistance -> more hits needed to kill -> longer fight -> less effect from RNG
So wizard vs fighter will be more affected by the RNG than fighter vs fighter or wizard vs wizard.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As we get closer to EE and OE, more of the player skill contributions while come into effect, as things like line of sight are added to the game.
I'm still not sure I understand the original question, though. Do you mean two clones, not moving, standing within range of all of their spells (or weapons, for the martial classes), following the same pattern of spell casting/attacks?
Do you mean two clones played by different people, who might choose to run toward or away from each other, or cast totally different spells, or duck for cover?
If you're talking about NPC clones, not moving, both controlled by the same AI, then first shot and luck of the "dice" will probably carry the day. In game, though, two players that evenly matched are likely to be pretty rare.
If you mean "How are hits and misses determined? How do damage rolls work? How does the game know who is affected by which attack first?", then there are a couple of older blogs that explain a lot of those mechanics.
.@Karlbob
I am referring to two PCs of same role, same gear, same build, attacking each other at relatively the same time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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.@Karlbob
I am referring to two PCs of same role, same gear, same build, attacking each other at relatively the same time.
In that case, for right now first strike seems to have a lot to do with the outcome, followed by dice rolls, followed by player skill. Hopefully, each new Alpha version until EE should increase the contribution of player skill.
I'm interested to see how this evolves over time. There was a slight pvp conflict on the Bonny Show yesterday and it seemed to confirm what you are all saying.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There was a slight pvp conflict on the Bonny Show yesterday...
"slight", eh? It. Was. Awesome!
I think I'm one of the few folks who walked out with my Reputation intact, but that didn't stop me from laying waste to enough other players to get yet another 24-hour flag :)
I'm sitting pretty at 97/125 player kills into Player Killer 7. I didn't get an accurate count of exactly how many of those came last night, but I'm reasonably confident it's in the 20+ range.
Keep in mind Nihimon we were watching from Bonny's screen and there was much jumping around so it was kind of hard to see it at times :P
And I would say about 20ish was a fair number to put on it.
