[PFS] Mounted Wayang Advice

[Slacker2010]

I always wanted to make a mounted character, with the restrictions in pfs this is really hard outside of small characters. Before now, all small characters had -2 STR, which turned me off. BUT NOW, with the wayang I think I can make it work.

So Advice:

Stats - Thinking 16,12(10+2),14,15(13+2),10(12-2),10. I also though about dropping the STR to a 15 to start with a 4th level bump and a belt I should be good enough at 18.

Im looking at Dragoon, Sohei and Gendarme for classes. Or a mix there of. I can't decide on what to do, or better yet, how important is it to have an Animal companion. I do know I want two levels in Sohei. This will get me +3 to all my saves and Devoted Guardian and two mounted feats. It does waste evasion, as I would be in more than light armor.

I would assume it is worth having and AC so I would need to mix in Cavalier or do the NatureSoul/Animal Friend thing.

Feats looking into: MountedCombat, RidebyAttack, SpirtedCharge, WheelingCharge, PowerAttack, FuriousFocus, BoonCompanion, IndominableMount, SkillFocus(Ride)

I feel these are needed for the character to function properly. Its alot of feats and its kind of daunting.

Any tips? suggestions?

[Akerlof]

You don't really need the Skill Focus (Ride), aside from trying to avoid attacks aimed at your mount; most of the important DCs are pretty low.

I'd also consider looking at the Emissary Cavalier archetype: You get Mounted Combat as a bonus feat (seriously, why do you have to take an archetype to get that as a Cavalier, it should come default,) and allows you to move at full speed in medium armor when you're dismounted.

Though a straight Cavalier who keeps Tactician and Banner is a good way to go as well.

Before you make any decisions on build, though, what do you want to do with your character? Do you want him to explode bad guys? Do you want him to be the ultimate tank and not let his allies get hurt? Do you want him to be a skirmisher, picking off enemies around the edges and maybe streaking in to strike at an important enemy when it's tactically optimal? Do you want him to be a force multiplier, doing good damage himself but also bringing up the fighting power of the entire rest of the group? Do you want to be a face?

There are a lot of options for mounted characters, and I find that it helps to build backward from what you want to do rather than build forward into something unknown.

[Slacker2010]

Akerlof wrote:

Before you make any decisions on build, though, what do you want to do with your character? Do you want him to explode bad guys? Do you want him to be the ultimate tank and not let his allies get hurt? Do you want him to be a skirmisher, picking off enemies around the edges and maybe streaking in to strike at an important enemy when it's tactically optimal? Do you want him to be a force multiplier, doing good damage himself but also bringing up the fighting power of the entire rest of the group? Do you want to be a face?

This is for PFS. So exploding bad guys is good but I think that will come with spirited charge. He has to be Durable enough and flexible. I think Spirited Charge and Wheeling Charge will cover most of my combat needs.

[Bigdaddyjug]

One thing you have to remember about small characters is, even though they have a -2 to Str, they don't have any worse of an attack bonus, since small characters get a +1 to attack.

I recently put together a halfling emissary beast rider cavalier and he's looking like he's going to be pretty fun. I haven't played him yet, so I'm still considering mking him a wayang, but that hit to an already low Will save is tough to swallow.

[Sir Hendric the Vigilant]

A Medium-sized cavalier is not all that difficult in practice, contrary to what you may have heard. I say this from experience. Narrow Frame and Sure Footed are useful feats, and a couple of scrolls of Carry Companion can help, although I haven't had to use them yet. I am leaning against getting the Hosteling armor enchantment since my cavalier has only about 14 sessions left, and the enchantment is equal in cost to 50 scrolls. At mid-levels there are enough large opponents that the combat maps have to make room for them.

The human bonus feat is also very nice for a cavalier, as is the favored class bonus and possibly the Huntmaster feat or Eye for Talent alternative racial trait.

Nothing in the lore supports a Wayang population in Lastwall, which is the affiliation for the excellent Wheeling Charge feat. If you do go Wayang, it would be a very interesting story how he came to be in Lastwall, what is his relationship with the Knights of Ozem and the other orders, is he more focused on Belkzen or Ustalav, what they think of him in Vigil, and so on.

[Bigdaddyjug]

Sir Hendric the Vigilant wrote:

Nothing in the lore supports a Wayang population in Lastwall, which is the affiliation for the excellent Wheeling Charge feat. If you do go Wayang, it would be a very interesting story how he came to be in Lastwall, what is his relationship with the Knights of Ozem and the other orders, is he more focused on Belkzen or Ustalav, what they think of him in Vigil, and so on.

Juuya Farasi first came to Lastwall when he stowed away on a caravan travelling there from Tian-Xia. When the caravan finally reached its destination, he was amazed by all of the "big people" riding on the "four legs". He was especially amazed that the "four legs" were strong enough to carry the "big people", even while the "big people" were wearing all of that heavy armor.

He used to hide on top of one of the sheds in the practice yard and watch a "cab a leers" train for hours at a time. His small size and ability to blend into even the smallest bit of shadow meant that none of them even knew he was there, or so he thought.

One day, Juuya was enthralled when one of the grooms led a fiesty "little four legs" into the practice yard. Juuya could hear the groom speaking with the Sergeant-at-Arms and telling him that he thought the "poe knee" would make a great mount for a "cab a leer", if only they could find somebody small enough to ride it.

With a thoughtful look on his face, the Sergeant-at-Arms glanced over at Juuya's hiding place. Juuya was terrified as he realized that the Sergeant-at-Arms knew he was there. The Sergeant-at-Arms gestured forJuuya to come down and approach him. As he did, the other "cab a leers" were shocked to see the little wayang, as it appeared only the Sergeant-at-Arms had known he was there.

When he got about 10 feet away from the Sergeant, Juuya stopped. He looked extremely nervous and could barely lift his eyes higher than the Sergeant's boots. The Sergeant barked a loud, "Attention!", causing Juuya to look up at him with fear and trepidation. The Sergeant then pointed at Juuya, then at the pony. At first, Juuya wasn't sure what the Sergeant was saying. Finally, it dawned on him that the Sergeant wanted Juuya to ride the pony. Juuya was overjoyed. He scrambled over to the pony before his better judgement could reign him in. He leaped astride the beast and charged around the practice yard completely bareback.

From that day forward, Juuya did not have to watch the cavaliers train, because he was training with them. Juuya could never get comfortable with a saddle, so he simply did without. He trained for many long years before the Sergeant finally told him that he was good enough to become something called an Emissary.

[Undone]

I actually wanted the same thing. Here's what I had so far.

Waynag
STR: 18
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 7
1) Dragoon Fighter <Mounted combat><Skill focus>
2) Mad Dog Barbarian (Fast Movement Bat/Roc animal Companion) <Ride by attack>
3) 2 handed Ranger <Spirited charge>
4) 2 Handed Ranger <Power attack>
5) Clestial Bloodrager (Rage, Fast Movement) <Boon Companion>

The problem is that I really want to find a way to get it without barbarian so I can be a paladin.

[Slacker2010]

Why MD barbarian and Ranger?

You can drop both and plug in Paladin. Really You dont need and AC.

Do we know if Bloodrager and Barbarians will stack?

[Undone]

Slacker2010 wrote:

Why MD barbarian and Ranger?

You can drop both and plug in Paladin. Really You dont need and AC.

Do we know if Bloodrager and Barbarians will stack?

You need a flying mount to charge across difficult terrain, over cliffs, and of course it solves the flying enemy problem. Paladin does none of this and MD barb gets bat/roc as its mount. You need a flying animal companion as a mount.

Unfortunately this strips any value from barbarian so you skip out on the class as quick as possible. You take 2 ranger for a bonus feat and favored enemy. You need a minimum of 2 bonus feats to compensate for the boon companion feats you have to take a 5/7.

[deusvult]

Undone wrote:

...

2) Mad Dog Barbarian (Fast Movement Bat/Roc animal Companion) <Ride by ...

If this is a PFS character, you may technically get a Roc animal companion, but you'll never be allowed to ride it*. Which may defeat the purpose of choosing it.

*= you might get away with riding it only while it's not flying, but being a two legged critter might make that its own rules tangle. And probably not worth it anyway. If you do want to have a flying mount, the rules in Inner Sea Combat are afaik the only way to do so that are PFS legal.

[Secret Wizard]

Not sure if the Small But Deadly feat is PFS legal, but it could open up many options for you.

Anyway, I personally like the Roughrider Fighter because you can use Medium Armor without encumbering a mount and you have a ton more options to full attack, but it needs the whole Animal Ally thing for a wolf Mount so it doesn't get online until a few levels in.

[Imbicatus]

Nothing from Kobolds of Golarion is PFS legal, so no Small But Deadly.

[Undone]

deusvult wrote:

Undone wrote:

...

2) Mad Dog Barbarian (Fast Movement Bat/Roc animal Companion) <Ride by ...

If this is a PFS character, you may technically get a Roc animal companion, but you'll never be allowed to ride it*. Which may defeat the purpose of choosing it.

*= you might get away with riding it only while it's not flying, but being a two legged critter might make that its own rules tangle. And probably not worth it anyway. If you do want to have a flying mount, the rules in Inner Sea Combat are afaik the only way to do so that are PFS legal.

I've been wrong before but where does it state you can't buy an exotic saddle for mounts for an AC and ride them presuming you're the appropriate size?

[deusvult]

It's not a question of what CAN be done, it's a question of what MAY be done (in PFS).

Lemme see if I can find the FAQ/Rulings. The gist of it is "no flying mounts." Excepting, of course, the flying mount rules that are allowable into PFS in Inner Sea Combat.

But in the meanwhile, yeah there'd be no problems at all with the idea of riding a Roc in a non PFS game.

EDIT: To be fair, I'm having trouble finding something that says a non-cavalier/non-paladin can't have a flying mount. Maybe being neither would work on a technicality, although I'd expect table variation about whether or not it would, pardon the pun, "fly".

[Undone]

deusvult wrote:

It's not a question of what CAN be done, it's a question of what MAY be done (in PFS).

Lemme see if I can find the FAQ/Rulings. The gist of it is "no flying mounts." Excepting, of course, the flying mount rules that are allowable into PFS in Inner Sea Combat.

But in the meanwhile, yeah there'd be no problems at all with the idea of riding a Roc in a non PFS game.

EDIT: To be fair, I'm having trouble finding something that says a non-cavalier/non-paladin can't have a flying mount. Maybe being neither would work on a technicality, although I'd expect table variation about whether or not it would, pardon the pun, "fly".

With all due respect if you can't show me a PFS rule which states "Flying mounts are not allowed except by feats which allow them" it's not the case and there is no table variation. Our VL plays with one and I've seen a few players do the same.

The ONLY specific PFS rule for mounts is that paladins and cavaliers must select one of the listed mounts with 0 other options available without other sources.

[Slacker2010]

Undone wrote:

You need a flying mount to charge across difficult terrain, over cliffs, and of course it solves the flying enemy problem. Paladin does none of this and MD barb gets bat/roc as its mount. You need a flying animal companion as a mount.

Yes, you need a flying mount to charge across difficult terrain/cliffs/etc. No, it doesn't have to be an animal companion. That is just the cheapest way to get one. I dont feel like sifting through the additional materials, are you saying that all sources of flying mounts are banned without a class feature?

If they are, then I do remember a ruling saying that classes with animal companions levels stack if the animal is on both list. If not, the animal wouldn't scale. So you wouldn't need boon companion. Just have to get a new one each time it dies by taking a hit.

[Undone]

Slacker2010 wrote:

Undone wrote:

You need a flying mount to charge across difficult terrain, over cliffs, and of course it solves the flying enemy problem. Paladin does none of this and MD barb gets bat/roc as its mount. You need a flying animal companion as a mount.

Yes, you need a flying mount to charge across difficult terrain/cliffs/etc. No, it doesn't have to be an animal companion. That is just the cheapest way to get one. I dont feel like sifting through the additional materials, are you saying that all sources of flying mounts are banned without a class feature?

If they are, then I do remember a ruling saying that classes with animal companions levels stack if the animal is on both list. If not, the animal wouldn't scale. So you wouldn't need boon companion. Just have to get a new one each time it dies by taking a hit.

A purchased animal companion will die every single time an AOE spell hits your group.

[Slacker2010]

Undone wrote:

A purchased animal companion will die every single time an AOE spell hits your group.

While this is true, its not really practical. If you are flying on your mount the BBEG will use his fireball to hit the most targets. Dragoons, and other mount classes without animal companions, would run into this issue more often than someone on a flying mount. Honestly it doesn't come up that often.