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I believe I am correct in believing that a Mythic surge cannot change a failed saving throw , which was failed due to the player rolling a 1.
Checking as a TPK is in the offing unless I am wrong
Thanks for confirming my opinion I hate to TPK and be wrong.
So far for the party in question Level 8 Mythic 2 Wizard, Paladin, Monk, Ninja, Ranger there is no core material (I have found) they can use for a reroll.
Which means that both the ranger and the paladin are out and they are in deep trouble. They have 6 more days to come up with something.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Thanks for confirming my opinion I hate to TPK and be wrong.
So far for the party in question Level 8 Mythic 2 Wizard, Paladin, Monk, Ninja, Ranger there is no core material (I have found) they can use for a reroll.
Which means that both the ranger and the paladin are out and they are in deep trouble. They have 6 more days to come up with something.
I disagree with "Nothing". It seems to me the whole point of mythic surge is to make failures into non-failures. Nothing in the text of the rule says all rolls of 1 are not subject to be surged. The plain language reading of the surge is that expending a mythic point changes any role from X to X plus 1d6 and changes the outcome. If they meant to exclude 1 rolls from surge the rule would say so.
The ability reads:
Surge (Su): You can call upon your mythic power to overcome difficult challenges. You can expend one use of mythic power to increase any d20 roll you just made by rolling 1d6 and adding it to the result. Using this ability is an immediate action taken after the result of the original roll is revealed. This can change the outcome of the roll. The bonus die gained by using this ability increases to 1d8 at 4th tier, 1d10 at 7th tier, and 1d12 at 10th tier.
Core rulebook under saving throws:
Automatic Failures and Successes: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on a saving throw is always a failure (and may cause damage to exposed items; see Items Surviving after a Saving Throw). A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a success.
Interesting interpretation--the surge doesn't add a bonus; it actually increases the result of the d20 roll. Would you argue that one could induce an automatic hit and critical threat by increasing a 14 to a 20 in this manner? It's basically both or neither.
Interesting interpretation--the surge doesn't add a bonus; it actually increases the result of the d20 roll. Would you argue that one could induce an automatic hit and critical threat by increasing a 14 to a 20 in this manner? It's basically both or neither.
Yes, I do feel a roll could be made into an automatic hit or a critical threat by surging. The threat would still have to be confirmed and I suppose a character could then use another mythic point on the D20 confirmation/continuation role. To me trying to get from 14 to 20 would not be a very good use of a mythic point as the character using mythic points in this manner is going to run out of mythic points very quickly.
However, the character who rolls a 1 on a saving throw could well die as a result. If she has a surge point the mythic character can avoid this result.
That is correct, it doesn't matter if you add 100 or a million to the saving throw roll, if the die roll comes up a 1 you fail anyway.
The normal way around this is to use feat (like Force of Will), spell, etc. that allows you to reroll a failed save, although there are probably some more exotic abilities that might also work (was there a deity power that allowed them to still succeed on a 1 or was that 3.x?).
Another question for "Nothing": Under your interpretation would you allow Lucky Halfling to be used to substitute for a character roll of 1 on a saving throw or is a roll of 1 always a failure?
Lucky Halfling
You bring luck to those with whom you travel.
Prerequisite: Halfling.
Benefit: Once per day, when one of your allies within 30 feet makes a saving throw, you may roll the same saving throw as if you were the one subject to the effect requiring it. You may use this ability after your ally has rolled, but before the GM declares if the roll was a success or failure. Your ally may choose to use your saving throw in place of his own.
There should be a save equivelent of the "Always a Chance" Path ability for saves. A natural one is not considered an automatic failure.