Sidestep and Climb, a serious question that's almost a bad joke

[movieholic1977]

I kinda laughed at myself for even posting this. I mean this is mostly a joke but at it's heart is a serious question. So here's the setup...

If you play a 7th Level Kobold Fighter, then you gain Share Space at 5th level and a feat at 7th. At 7th level you take the feat Sidestep, mostly for kicks but also to get a funny reaction from your local DM.

Sidestep says, "Whenever an opponent misses you with a melee attack, you may move 5 feet as an immediate action so long as you remain within that opponent’s threatened area. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If you take this step, you cannot take a 5-foot step during your next turn. If you take an action to move during your next turn, subtract 5 feet from your total movement. "

So why can't you climb up the creatures leg? or body?

Since Climbing is part of movement, so it’s generally part of a move action (and may be combined with other types of movement in a move action).

Presuming max ranks in Climb, 19 Dex, you have...7 ranks - 1 or 2 for low strength + 3 class skill + 3 Athletic Prowesss (Swarm Fighter Ability) =
+ 10 or so check

I get that movement and the spirit of the rules is referring to one of the 8 squares around the creature, but i find it funny to ask...

why can't you climb up 5 feet, as a sidestep?

Hopefully you got a kick out of this as much as I did, please share your thoughts.

For the love of the game,

Michael

[FLite]

Because you can't 5 foot step while climbing unless you have a climb speed, and you can't use a climb check to climb a foe (unless the foe is so large they count as terrain.) What you really want is a "mount hostile animal" skill check. Unfortunately, (or fortunately) pathfinder does not have rules for using ride with hostile mounts. Or sentient mounts, let alone hostile sentient mounts.

[movieholic1977]

FLite wrote:

Because you can't 5 foot step while climbing unless you have a climb speed, and you can't use a climb check to climb a foe (unless the foe is so large they count as terrain.) What you really want is a "mount hostile animal" skill check. Unfortunately, (or fortunately) pathfinder does not have rules for using ride with hostile mounts. Or sentient mounts, let alone hostile sentient mounts.

Your logic seems sound but this presumes that "you may move 5 feet" is the same as "take a 5 foot step".

you may move 5 feet means you may move up to your speed but the limit is 5 feet

where you take a 5 foot step is a different action altogether.

if you may move 5 feet wins then climbing becomes part of the action

where when you take take a 5 footer you may not.

Again its a semantics question. With emphasis on this rare character who is sharing space with another which is only allowed in this instance, who has climb as a class skill whether that be intentional or not is hard to say.

I think a little clarity is needed here because i see your logic but my mind does not ccnnect the dots the same way your doing...thank you for the input though

[DualJay]

"you may move 5 feet means you may move up to your speed but the limit is 5 feet"

Wat.

[FLite]

It is clearly functioning as a 5 foot step. Note: does not provoke, takes up your next turn's five foot step. Also, it does not require you to have movement left over from last turn.

Climb is not part of a movement. It is it's own sort of move action.

Also, climb does not allow you to scale people enemies, just objects.

[wraithstrike]

When climbing your taking 5 feet takes up more than 5 feet of movement if you dont have an actual climb speed. That means your 5 ft distance on the map will actually take up 20 feet of movement due to climb restricting you to 1/4 of your movement speed.

When the rules are written they assume you are doing things normally. When you change the base assumption you must adjust according.

As for climbing creatures, the only ones that are allowed to climbed by the rules are the newer ones in the bestiary because they are so large.

[movieholic1977]

FLite wrote:

It is clearly functioning as a 5 foot step. Note: does not provoke, takes up your next turn's five foot step. Also, it does not require you to have movement left over from last turn.

Climb is not part of a movement. It is it's own sort of move action.

Also, climb does not allow you to scale people enemies, just objects.

Since a player gets 1 standard, 1 move, 1 swift or immediate action...why can't a player move into the same square as an enemy due to Swarm Fighters rules of Shared Space. Then Take a standard action to hit them and set up bonuses for the the other pc's. Wait for the enemys turn. They attack and miss. Now sidestep triggers, as long as they stay within the enemys threatened reach they can move all around them or in any direction since sidestep does not specify directionality! I mean its clear they want you to side step all around them for clear flanking rules but i contend that swarm fighter along with a base class skill of climb and huge bonuses to climb along with a strict wording of sidestep does not ban you from climbing. Because moving and climbing can be used as the same action which by extension an immediate action as well. It seems always reactionary and catlike. Your constantly ducking and moving all around the enemy and since your in their square i find no where in the rules where climbing on an enemy is somehow forbidden.

For Clarity:

moving 5 feet could be either an immediate action or a move action per the rules. But you can only do one or the other.

Shared Space allows you to share the space of an enemy.

Questions:

Does climbing also work with shared space?

Can you move and climb as a move action and an immediate action?

There is one thing you can not climb, A perfectly smooth, flat vertical (or inverted) surface cannot be climbed.

Which means everything else is a DC Climb Skill Check.

I am not seeking to be argumentative but only to learn and i have personally looked up every question so far in the SRD just in case i might be wrong. Please feel free to continue to share your thoughts as i sleep on these questions.

For the Love of the Game,

Michael

[kinevon]

You could climb up a total of 1.25', since without a climb speed you move at 1/4 speed.

Feats like this one are designed and work in two dimensional space, not 3D.

So, overall, you cannot do so, unless you are playing a PF game based on the PCs being the Three Stooges. Now, since your PC is a Kobold, it is entirely possible that you are playing the Three Stooges in PF.

Final answer: Ask your GM.

[Lycar]

"So why can't you climb up the creatures leg? or body?"

... wouldn't that just be a grapple?