I would appreciate some thoughts on what Nualia will do with the following situation.
She is currently trapped in the lowest level of Thistletop, the secret door at the top of the stairs having been closed and blocked by all the furniture the party could find.
She is not aware of it yet, but all of here henchmen at Thistletop have been killed or fled.
The party has moved through the adventure at a good pace so I feel like the progress indicated for the exploration of the lower level of Thistletop in the adventure is accurate and what I plan to use for my timing and available resources.
The party is preparing to leave Thistletop to raise the Paladin that fell to one of the Yeth hounds in the chapel of Lamashtu. They could be back the next day, or gone for a little over a week I will not know till we start the next session exactly what they are doing.
Thanks to the fountain in the Observation Deck she has plenty of water, but I expect limited food.
The only way out currently would be to find the secret door in the room with the shadows, if they don't kill her first and then swim out through the treasury.
So could she defeat the shadows since she is set to channel negative energy? And if she doesn't would she just become a normal shadow or would she still have any of her class abilities?
The other option would be her getting past the Gold Coin door, finding the key and opening Mal's door. Even though he can't leave, the two of them and the final Yeth hound would be a very tough fight for 3rd level party.
Any options I may have missed?
Thanks
JD
I had not thought about her being able to just bash / break through everything. So I hadn't thought in detail of what they piled in front of the door.
So looking at the rooms, I figured they put everything from the research room and the war room in front of the door. So that would be two tables, a large set of book shelves and a half dozen chairs.
Looking through spells I found a couple that should be helpful.
As you mentioned at second level she has Shatter, which she can do 3/day.
She has Bull's Strength as a domain spell, oh and Enlarge Person as 1st level domain spell.
Next at first level I found Hairline Fractures which reduces the hardness of stone objects, which will help with the stone secret door.
Also at first level I found Lighten Object, which will cut the weight of an object in half, which means she could shatter an 80 pound object instead of 40.
So this is what I see her memorizing the morning after she realizes she can't get out of the bottom level of the complex.
1st
Hairline Fractures
Lighten Object
Divine Favor
Shield of Faith
D - Enlarge Person
2nd
Shatter
Shatter
Shatter
D - Bull's Strenght
With this plus her magical great sword I think she should be able to get through everything in a long day of work. Or should I say it takes two just to make sure the party doesn't think I screwed them.
JD
She could also kill the crab and swim out. This might be an excuse for her to leave her journal behind to fill in some of the back story since it would be ruined in the water anyway. Once she has escaped, I would have her put in an appearance, but one she will live through. Make her a reoccurring villain throughout the adventure, slowly advancing her transformation into a demon each time.
The challenge is that she can't get to that area with out defeating the shadows and then finding the secret door that leads to the treasury.
JD
Actually you're confronting the central illogic of that level in the AP. Don't get me wrong, I think this is a great AP but the structure of the AP is broken here. The implication is that Nualia and her cronies have had access to the lower level for days.
#1 it makes no sense that Nualia let Tsuto (who has more then enough perception to find the secret to the gold coin door) leave on his vengeance trip until after he had helped her search the level. The gold coin "door" is obviously a hidden mechanism of some kind.
#2 while bulbaquil is correct that her perception is not good enough to find the door unaltered, he is incorrect that there are not spells to help. Owl's wisdom will boost her wisdom by 4 and her perception by 2 which gets her to +7 and she can cast 0-level guidance repeatedly. That gets her to +8. With days available, she finds the method to open that door. And she should have found it long before the players get there.
#3 It makes no sense that Nualia and her allies ignore the Crypt. My players looked at the room for exactly 3 nano-seconds before they pointed directly to the spot and said "there's a secret door right there." The pattern of alcoves and sarcophagi leaves little mystery. Further if they were stymied at the gold coin door it would justify exploration of the crypt, at least enough to confront the shadows. Lyrie with her wand of magic missile, mage armor and mirror image is well-suited to take out shadows. And Nualia has a magic weapon, something many groups lack. The shadows are no challenge for her and her party. (Interesting aside: as noted in the Errata thread, Nualia does not qualify for Power Attack. One option would be to replace it with Command Undead. Then the shadows become her minions.)
To the OP: I think you're free to do whatever you want. If your players leave the dungeon, they should expect it will change before they return. So it's really based on what you think will make the campaign more interesting.
- You can leave Nualia and her Yeth Hound trapped (essentially as written in the AP.)
- You can have her gone by the time the players get back. Though the AP suggests she abandons Thistletop if her hit points are low (translation: danger is very high) I think that's an odd choice for her to make. Lamashtu has invested quite a bit for her to get here and if she leaves, she will never get another chance at Malfeshnekor and Sandpoint doesn't burn. She's always struck me as far too obsessed to give up regardless of threat level. Also, from a game mechanic point of view she and her hound represent xp your pc's won't get - you'll need to correct for that as the AP goes forward. And of course, it's kind of anti-climatic.
- You can have her get to Malfeshnekor and ally with him to defeat the pc's. Fighting together, they'll be a real tough fight especially if the pc's don't have any magical weapons.
- Crazy option: unable to get through the door, she explores the crypt. She kills a shadow or two and has to retreat. The xp gives her another cleric level. She then has access to Animate Dead. When the pc's return they find Thistletop held by undead versions of the creatures they killed the last time they were here.
- Hyper Crazy option - as Crazy option, instead of waiting for the pc's to return, Nualia, her Yeth hound and whatever undead goblins (or humans or bugbears) she can control attack Sandpoint in the middle of the night. The Yeth hound's howl will be devastating to the people and guards of the town. For fun she summons a fire elemental or two to light the place on fire.
- Insane option - as above only while her undead and hound attack, she uses the confusion to head to the Fatman's Feedbag. She kills a couple Sczarni (or random customers,) drops a bag of coins and gems (from the crypt treasury) on a table in front of Gressel or Jubrayl and says "there's a lot more where that came from. I have a problem you people are ideally suited to fix. Do I keep killing your people or do you help me and get rich?"
I want to add that her fleeing at low HP is a lot like ANY enemy fleeing at low HP, in that by the time she gets there, it's almost impossible to actually bail from the fight, especially considering the ways in and out of her "area" are one-tile-wide corridors that any player could easily block.
So while on the one hand, having her fight to the death is logical from a personal standpoing, it's not quite logical from the point of someone who seems to have taken all the time and energy that went into taking over an entire goblin tribe, exploring Thassilonian ruins, and organizing a raid on Sandpoint already. Someone who can plan at that level can obviously tell when a new plan is needed, and would probably act accordingly.
I've had her die in combat, and it never really went over well. It always just leaves the players saying "Oh, ok. I guess we won now.", even though there's stronger enemies in the dungeon, who are all mostly inconsequential plot-wise.
Definitely agree with the idea that it's hard to escape a fight once your at low hp. And fleeing often leaves you even more vulnerable.
And I certainly support each DM choosing what seems best or most interesting to them, but... One symptom of obsession or mental imbalance is an inability to know when a new plan is needed.
I think the major reason her death can be anti-climatic is that the players never encounter her until the fight that kills her. Any antagonism they may have for her is through circumstantial evidence - they deal with the consequences of her actions but never her directly.
Good call on the Owl's Wisdom to help with the secret door.
I did notice the issue of her Strength and Power Attack, so I just opted to bump it up to meet the requirement. However your idea of swapping feats sounds good as well.
Someone on the boards suggested her having escape but leaving her journal so the PC's can get an idea of what she's been through. Then when they encounter her it will have more meaning. (maybe)
Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions, will give me a lot to think on between now and tomorrows game.
JD