Publishers: How do you pretty-up your PDFs?

[Alzrius]

Every so often, I'll think about dabbling in some third-party work. Usually that's just writing down some ideas, but sometimes I wonder about how layout works.

Since I know nothing about the latter topic, I wanted to ask the publishers here: what tools and techniques do you use for graphic design in your PDF products? What's the process for making the transition from black text on a white background to something more visually pleasing?

[Buri]

That's more color theory than anything. Complimentary colors and colors that, when side by side, give different effects are key depending on the document. I'd recommend doing some research into it and then looking at what you'd consider to be 'pretty' and tear them apart. Note what elements are where in relation to each other, what colors are used, which fonts, think about why that font, and so on. Do this a few times and note patterns between them.

[Scott_UAT]

In terms of tools- Adobe InDesign. I've heard of some others but InDesign is the industry standard. If you are not skilled at that sort of work- I would suggest hiring someone who does desktop publishing. Their rates are pretty reasonable and will end up looking pretty solid (I have a list of folks I've used if you want me to share it with you).

I had a background (at least in part) in graphic design and I taught myself InDesign to do Little Red's products. I actually had a guy who did desktop publishing do our first dozen ones or so before I caught on and considered myself good enough.

In terms of techniques- take a graphic design class/workshop. It's an entire field so summing it up in a post is rather difficult. I'm not saying that to sound snide or anything, I legitimately would encourage a graphic design 101 course if you REALLY want an answer to that question (or at least hit up some graphic design websites).

[LMPjr007]

Scott_UAT wrote:

In terms of tools- Adobe InDesign. I've heard of some others but InDesign is the industry standard. If you are not skilled at that sort of work- I would suggest hiring someone who does desktop publishing. Their rates are pretty reasonable and will end up looking pretty solid (I have a list of folks I've used if you want me to share it with you).

I had a background (at least in part) in graphic design and I taught myself InDesign to do Little Red's products. I actually had a guy who did desktop publishing do our first dozen ones or so before I caught on and considered myself good enough.

In terms of techniques- take a graphic design class/workshop. It's an entire field so summing it up in a post is rather difficult. I'm not saying that to sound snide or anything, I legitimately would encourage a graphic design 101 course if you REALLY want an answer to that question (or at least hit up some graphic design websites).

Simply put, hire a professional graphic designer to do your layout. Look at local colleges also for designers. A good designer can turn an OK looking product into a GREAT looking product which in turn will help your sales in the long run.

[Garrett Guillotte]

Alzrius wrote:

what tools and techniques do you use for graphic design in your PDF products?

Preferably InDesign. QuarkXPress may do if you can grab it cheap. Honestly, prolific 3PPs like Raging Swan do just fine with Word. (Cue layout pros chiming in with "Word is not layout software." I know! And yet somehow Creighton manages just fine.)

I've bashed my head against Scribus on and off for at least five years and I can't recommend it even at the price of free.

Alzrius wrote:

What's the process for making the transition from black text on a white background to something more visually pleasing?

The easy answer: Hire someone. :)

(Disclaimer: I do freelance layout and print production work.)

Black text on a white background can be very visually pleasing. The Fate Core book, Shadowrun 2E-3E, and the old WEG D6 Star Wars books are great examples. Pick two, maybe three quality contrasting typefaces with several weights, give them plenty of space, and be consistent.

I've seen too many rookie designers make unreadable PDFs and books by trying to use ornate textured backgrounds. People ask for a print-/mobile-friendly version with the backgrounds disabled anyway. It can be tough to pull off and only pays off when you're publishing the book with a professional printer or quality PoD provider--most home printers and many cheap print shops don't support the full-bleed or trims that make textured backgrounds work well.

Buri wrote:

That's more color theory than anything. Complimentary colors and colors that, when side by side, give different effects are key depending on the document.

Note that color considerations also apply when the book is printed B/W, especially when you're only distributing a PDF. It pays to examine how the colors you pick will convert.

[LazarX]

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Preferably InDesign. QuarkXPress may do if you can grab it cheap.

You mean pirate or steal, don't you? because at over 800 bucks per license last time I checked, it's not "cheap" QuarkXpress used to be THE be all and end all of professional Desktop Publishing, but after shooting themselves in the foot, they have all but given that market to Adobe which is now using a subscription model.

For those whose economic situation excludes either, there is Scribus which is cross platform Mac/Windows, and I think Linux as well. It's a lot more rough than either, but it will get the job done.

[YuenglingDragon]

I basically echo the sentiments of the others. FPG got lucky because my brother is a senior graphic designer for a fortune 500 company and brings his formidable talent to us at a cheap price.

A one time fee to a PowerPoint guru will get you a nice template that's a hell of a lot easier to use than learning InDesign or Scribus.

Finally, creative use of free creative commons art can go a long way. For an archetype called a dweomer weaver, my brother snagged a super high Res image of a rope and zoomed in to see the fibers before performing other wizardry on it and sticking it in a corner. It looked great and it was just a bit in a corner. That's the kind of thing a graphic designer brings to the table and a good reason to hire one or pick up some of the skills by taking classes.

[Lilith]

LazarX wrote:

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Preferably InDesign. QuarkXPress may do if you can grab it cheap.

You mean pirate or steal, don't you? because at over 800 bucks per license last time I checked, it's not "cheap" QuarkXpress used to be THE be all and end all of professional Desktop Publishing, but after shooting themselves in the foot, they have all but given that market to Adobe which is now using a subscription model.

For those whose economic situation excludes either, there is Scribus which is cross platform Mac/Windows, and I think Linux as well. It's a lot more rough than either, but it will get the job done.

That *is* cheap for layout software...which is why it's cheaper for you to hire a pro that already has the software.

And Word produces perfectly serviceable PDFs for beginner third-party publishers.

[Garrett Guillotte]

LazarX wrote:

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Preferably InDesign. QuarkXPress may do if you can grab it cheap.

You mean pirate or steal, don't you? because at over 800 bucks per license last time I checked, it's not "cheap"

I paid for mine four years ago, before the subscription model, so I'm admittedly lucky. I paid for buying CS4, upgrading to CS5.5, and upgrading to CS6 in two jobs.

InDesign on Creative Cloud is $20/month, anyway.

Quote:

For those whose economic situation excludes either, there is Scribus which is cross platform Mac/Windows, and I think Linux as well. It's a lot more rough than either, but it will get the job done.

Again, if you can figure out Scribus well enough to do something that looks better than a Word/OpenOffice document AND keep it upright long enough to finish a large project, my hat's off to you.

[Covent]

I have just started working with InDesign and I have to say it is very impressive.

Also as Garrett Guillote has said the subscription model has made it very affordable for me.

There are things in InDesign that are very easy, which were incredibly hard or near impossible in Word.

Garrett Guillote wrote:

I've seen too many rookie designers make unreadable PDFs and books by trying to use ornate textured backgrounds. People ask for a print-/mobile-friendly version with the backgrounds disabled anyway. It can be tough to pull off and only pays off when you're publishing the book with a professional printer or quality PoD provider--most home printers and many cheap print shops don't support the full-bleed or trims that make textured backgrounds work well.

Would you recommend against any textures for a product or just incredibly ornate ones?

I ask because I have just finished my first project, and it does include a simple texture. I am trying to avoid rookie mistakes.

[YuenglingDragon]

I think a light background texture is fine. We use a sort of parchment background. Things that are more ornate and have fixtures in the corners or scroll work or crap like that can be cumbersome and limiting for your design too.

[Scott_UAT]

I am embarrassed to say it but my first PDF was done in OpenOffice. (It also turned out terrible)

But yeah- I use Adobe InDesign Creative Cloud.

[Alzrius]

Scott_UAT wrote:

I would suggest hiring someone who does desktop publishing. Their rates are pretty reasonable and will end up looking pretty solid (I have a list of folks I've used if you want me to share it with you).

Would you mind PMing me that list?

[richard develyn]

I use Microsoft Word and do it all myself.

Admittedly, although I had to wrestle with Word for a while, now that I have a format I'm happy with it doesn't take me long to lay out my next adventure.

If you want to see what I produce, all my adventures have free previews (http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/f/fourDollarDungeons).

I tried Serif PagePlus but couldn't get on with it.

Richard

[LazarX]

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Again, if you can figure out Scribus well enough to do something that looks better than a Word/OpenOffice document AND keep it upright long enough to finish a large project, my hat's off to you.

I've used Scribus for some small scale work and got it done, largely helped by my prior experience with QuarkXpress. Once you get beyond the rough interface, it's pretty much the same with any program you try, it's all dependent on your design sense and ability to keep to a consistent style.

You can do good work on Scribus you just have to sweat bullets to get it off, but then again, Quark wasn't exactly a baby program either.

[Creighton Broadhurst]

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Preferably InDesign. QuarkXPress may do if you can grab it cheap. Honestly, prolific 3PPs like Raging Swan do just fine with Word. (Cue layout pros chiming in with "Word is not layout software." I know! And yet somehow Creighton manages just fine.)

I'm a huge fan of Word (and thanks for the kind words!) That said, I think it only works well for Raging Swan because A) I'm a minimalist - I don't bother with fancy backgrounds and so on and B) I'm a black and white chap. I'm sure trying to do colour images with Word would be "fun". Given I'm colour blind, I choose to endure the "fun".

I'd also point out, Word has a huge number of very advanced layout features if you dig about in the various menus.

[Scott_UAT]

Alzrius wrote:

Scott_UAT wrote:

I would suggest hiring someone who does desktop publishing. Their rates are pretty reasonable and will end up looking pretty solid (I have a list of folks I've used if you want me to share it with you).

Would you mind PMing me that list?

Done

[LazarX]

Creighton Broadhurst wrote:

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Preferably InDesign. QuarkXPress may do if you can grab it cheap. Honestly, prolific 3PPs like Raging Swan do just fine with Word. (Cue layout pros chiming in with "Word is not layout software." I know! And yet somehow Creighton manages just fine.)

I'm a huge fan of Word (and thanks for the kind words!) That said, I think it only works well for Raging Swan because A) I'm a minimalist - I don't bother with fancy backgrounds and so on and B) I'm a black and white chap. I'm sure trying to do colour images with Word would be "fun". Given I'm colour blind, I choose to endure the "fun".

I'd also point out, Word has a huge number of very advanced layout features if you dig about in the various menus.

Word has some nice bags of tricks within it. But it is not page layout software by any stretch of the imagination.

[richard develyn]

You can do page layout with it but it's a bit like herding cats.

I don't attempt to lay out now until I'm absolutely sure I've finished producing the source material. Then I lay out once for A4 and once for US-Letter and that's it.

Richard

[DeathQuaker]

LazarX wrote:

Creighton Broadhurst wrote:

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Preferably InDesign. QuarkXPress may do if you can grab it cheap. Honestly, prolific 3PPs like Raging Swan do just fine with Word. (Cue layout pros chiming in with "Word is not layout software." I know! And yet somehow Creighton manages just fine.)

I'm a huge fan of Word (and thanks for the kind words!) That said, I think it only works well for Raging Swan because A) I'm a minimalist - I don't bother with fancy backgrounds and so on and B) I'm a black and white chap. I'm sure trying to do colour images with Word would be "fun". Given I'm colour blind, I choose to endure the "fun".

I'd also point out, Word has a huge number of very advanced layout features if you dig about in the various menus.

Word has some nice bags of tricks within it. But it is not page layout software by any stretch of the imagination.

I'd also note that if you're just trying stuff out and you have Microsoft Office, and it is the package that comes with Microsoft Publisher, you could play around with that. It's nothing compared to InDesign or Quark Xpress, but at least for seeing what desktop publishing software looks like and the general concepts within, it's a start if you already have it. (If you don't already have it, don't bother getting it though if you're planning to buy a different bit of commercial software.)

I use Publisher for personal projects since I get it with the Office suite I have to use for work and hell... I'll be honest, it's not even as friendly as the Quark XPress I used to use in 1998 when I was (briefly) a newspaper layout editor, but it'll do for what I need it for. I used it not long ago to make a poster for my local meeting house, for example, and it did just fine.

Mind, I'd do favors of a possibly questionable and inappropriate nature for a copy of InDesign though, if only to properly learn it. Unfortunately it is expensive, and I don't need it for my current job so I can't beg off for a free license.

[Buri]

You can get a sub that's legit for cheap. Imo, it's even hobbyist cheap.

[Covent]

Buri wrote:

You can get a sub that's legit for cheap. Imo, it's even hobbyist cheap.

*Nod*

InDesign = 19.99/Month

[Scott_UAT]

Buri wrote:

hobbyist cheap

This is now my new favorite phrase.

[DeathQuaker]

Covent wrote:

Buri wrote:

You can get a sub that's legit for cheap. Imo, it's even hobbyist cheap.

*Nod*

InDesign = 19.99/Month

Interesting, I'll have to take a look at that. I think I'd rather just shell out and pay for it but depending on the terms it might be worth it.

[Garrett Guillotte]

DeathQuaker wrote:

Covent wrote:

Buri wrote:

You can get a sub that's legit for cheap. Imo, it's even hobbyist cheap.

*Nod*

InDesign = 19.99/Month

Interesting, I'll have to take a look at that. I think I'd rather just shell out and pay for it but depending on the terms it might be worth it.

There's also the 30-day free trial which doesn't have any other functionality limits. (It's worth noting the $20/mo price is with an annual commitment; the cancel-any-time price is $30/mo. If you just want to try it out and spend a couple weeks learning it first, the trial's the way to go.)

I've grabbed the latest Scribus for my annual patience trials and to see if it's any less buggy than 1.3 was last year.

[Interjection Games]

It's definitely perked up in the last year. The random crashes that plagued me when cooking up the tinker are a thing of the past. You just need external software to make tables.