Harrow Handbook and Online Play

[Robert Brookes]

Carried over from the additional resources thread:

How should we adjudicate the Harrow Handbook options that require a harrow deck when used in online play? I own a delux harrow deck, but the rules at present expressly prohibit using substitutions for the deck, which makes those options unable to be utilized online.

[MrRetsej]

This is an excellent question. For play by post, I see no real solution. For a roll 20 game with a google hangout video chat, you could shuffle and draw your Harrow Deck on camera, I suppose.

[Dylos]

MrRetsej wrote:

This is an excellent question. For play by post, I see no real solution. For a roll 20 game with a google hangout video chat, you could shuffle and draw your Harrow Deck on camera, I suppose.

roll20 also has decks so you could import a harrow deck into roll20 if you had images of the cards.

[Robert Brookes]

That's a good suggestion, but would that be legal in online play? Furthermore, would it be within community use guidelines to use the harrow card images like that?

[Dylos]

Robert Brookes wrote:

That's a good suggestion, but would that be legal in online play? Furthermore, would it be within community use guidelines to use the harrow card images like that?

I'm not sure it'd be legal, and I don't think every card has been released in a blog at this point so I don't believe it would be within the community use guidelines. Of course it would be in the community use guidelines if someone made another version of the cards simply for roll20 which had different pictures.

[Tempest_Knight]

A couple of questions...

Do any of the Harrow options depend on the artwork and/or card name?

If you just need suit and alignment, we should be able to knockout a digital proxy real quick.

But we still hit the issue of it not being exactly kosher...

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If you give me a general size for the picture/card, I can start on a rough set.

If the use of the suits is an issue, I can just rough it in with the Abilities in the Alignment Grid.

[Dylos]

Tempest_Knight wrote:

A couple of questions...

Do any of the Harrow options depend on the artwork and/or card name?

If you just need suit and alignment, we should be able to knockout a digital proxy real quick.

But we still hit the issue of it not being exactly kosher...

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If you give me a general size for the picture/card, I can start on a rough set.

If the use of the suits is an issue, I can just rough it in with the Abilities in the Alignment Grid.

They all depend on alignment or suit drawn for the most part, I have yet to see a non-artifact that depends on what exactly is drawn.

Here is the list of the cards and a few card pictures that I am assuming are covered under the community use guidelines.

[Pirate Rob]

The Harrowed Summoning feat cares about the artwork on the Harrow Cards.
Admitably in a manner that is largely flavor..

[Tempest_Knight]

Dylos, I have a copy of the new release of the Harrow deck.

Not so up on the various Harrow options now legal in PFS...

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Pirate Rob, I'll look into it... it is in the Harrow Handbook, right?

[Jeff Merola]

Tempest_Knight wrote:

Pirate Rob, I'll look into it... it is in the Harrow Handbook, right?

Yeah. The only part of it that's linked to the appearance of the cards, though, is making your summons look a bit like the cards you drew, hence Rob's statement of it being "largely flavor."

[Tempest_Knight]

Well... you still need your own physical copy of the deck... so... include the name to make finding it and describing the change easier...

Makes it a bit more iffy on the legal/copyright side... but, I'll tinker around with a rough for a suit...

Since I'll be including the Name, might as well include the Suit...

[Robert Brookes]

The main issue stands around the "no substitutions" rule for the cards.

[Tempest_Knight]

We understand that... but we are still working on a card set to import to the VTTs to potentially aid GMs keep things honest...

[LazarX]

PBP has always worked on the honor system. The Harrow Deck is the latest of a bunch of assumptions, such as having the rule materials for the mechanics your'e going to use.... the race boons for your character if needed. I don't see how this is any different.

[Sniggevert]

LazarX wrote:

PBP has always worked on the honor system. The Harrow Deck is the latest of a bunch of assumptions, such as having the rule materials for the mechanics your'e going to use.... the race boons for your character if needed. I don't see how this is any different.

I'll leave this here.

Until the online folks come up with an approved method I'd shy away from using a Harrow deck proxy online.

[Tempest_Knight]

Here is a basic template for the Harrow cards.

The correct suit icon will be placed in the corresponding box, with the card name in the upper void space, and the suit and corresponding ability in the bottom void space.

The card is W2.5" H3.5" (Standard playing card/Magic card size).

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NOTE: Haven't used Flickr for image hosting before so if there are any issues, help will be very welcome.