So according to the combat rules:
Ending Your Movement
You can't end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.
So what happens if a druid wildshapes into a large/huge creature and one of the squares he now occupies is occupied by an ally? By an enemy? Are there any rules (I'm sure there are) that I'm missing that address this?
prototype00
To my knowledge there are no rules. I would use an opposed strength check for enemies to see if they can be pushed into another square, but the movement would not provoke. For allies they may choose to allow themselves to be pushed.
PS: If the players try to use this to give an ally free movement you have to come up with a way to stop them from gaming the system.
Disclaimer: I am aware that this is the rule section. I am just presenting an alternative until rules are found or a reasonable answer of what a dev would say is presented.
So according to the combat rules:
Ending Your Movement
You can't end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.
So what happens if a druid wildshapes into a large/huge creature and one of the squares he now occupies is occupied by an ally? By an enemy? Are there any rules (I'm sure there are) that I'm missing that address this?
prototype00
You can't share squares. Large/Huge creatures can squeeze into a space half their size. If one of your new squares is occupied, and you can't move to a large enough space, squeezing is pretty much your only option.
If you have a move action left you would be forced to move into a new square so you aren't sharing space. If you don't have a move action left, and you can't squeeze to make room, this rule would come into play:
"Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it's not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there's a legal position that's closer."
If there isn't enough room to place a large or huge sized creature even with this and squeezing rules, the ability probably fails, although I couldn't find anything specific. You can imagine a similar situation where a druid in a 5ft square hole wildshapes into a large or huge sized creature. Assuming the enlarge person ruling sets a precedent he can't squish himself, so instead the shift just doesn't succeed.
So assuming I move before I wildshape (using up my move action), which takes precedence, the squeezing or the automatic moving out?
prototype00
So assuming I move before I wildshape (using up my move action), which takes precedence, the squeezing or the automatic shifting?
prototype00
Ending movement has clearly defined rules (see above). The rules for other situations that cause dual occupancy are less clear; in general, using the squeezing rules seems best, along with the caveat that a character must move out of such a squeezing situation at the earliest opportunity. The rules don't go into a ton of detail on the matter, probably because there are a lot of edge cases to cover--magical size changes, falling onto someone else's square, all of the above when create pit is involved, and so on.
So if I become an Allosaurus, a Huge Diosaur, a tiny bird perching on a branch 10ft above me could cause me to either:
A. Squeeze because I can't push it out of the way.
B. Stop transforming altogether if there isn't anywhere else to go.
I think I've hit a wall of suspension of disbelief here.
prototype00
Very Small Creature: A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature
can move into or through an occupied square. The creature
provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.
Thats in the CRB pg 193 of the 2nd printing, this section was not changed in reprints. Note move INTO OR THROUGH. So it can stay there.
Also, important note, when you are getting enlarged you are not "moving."
You are changing size categories. Moving is pretty strictly described in the rules, to wit:
Movement in Combat: Generally, you can move your
speed in a round and still do something (take a move
action and a standard action).
If you do nothing but move (that is, if you use both of
your actions in a round to move your speed), you can move
double your speed.
If you spend the entire round running, you can move
quadruple your speed (or three times your speed in heavy
armor). If you do something that requires a full round, you
can only take a 5-foot step.
CRB page 192 of the 2nd printing. Again this section was not changed in later reprints.
Movement means either taking a move action for the purposes of moving, or a 5 foot step.
There are also clear exceptions to the "you cannot end your movement in another creatures square" rule. Look at someone riding a mount.
I, for some reason, prefer to site to the book rather than the PRD.
Also, important note, when you are getting enlarged you are not "moving."
You are changing size categories. Moving is pretty strictly described in the rules, to wit:
Movement in Combat: Generally, you can move your
speed in a round and still do something (take a move
action and a standard action).
If you do nothing but move (that is, if you use both of
your actions in a round to move your speed), you can move
double your speed.
If you spend the entire round running, you can move
quadruple your speed (or three times your speed in heavy
armor). If you do something that requires a full round, you
can only take a 5-foot step.CRB page 192 of the 2nd printing. Again this section was not changed in later reprints.
Movement means either taking a move action for the purposes of moving, or a 5 foot step.
There are also clear exceptions to the "you cannot end your movement in another creatures square" rule. Look at someone riding a mount.
I, for some reason, prefer to site to the book rather than the PRD.
So you can end your "enlarge" in someone's square then? Is that what you are saying Ubercroz? Is that or is that not squeezing at that point?
prototype00
I would think you could enlarge in someones square, your not moving, or you could say it's squeezing if the GM says so. Its not really covered. So really it one of those "Table Variance" things.
I would be 100% comfortable with either answer.
I don't think you are going to find a hard and fast rule that dictates what "must" be done. It's also not likely to be a FAQ candidate, since apparently it hasn't been a big enough issue over the last... 20 years(?) to have really been addressed by either edition.
What I would do is call it a squeeze, but there isn't a rule I am aware of that requires it.
I wonder what happens in PFS? :)
prototype00
I tell my players to squeeze and act like a man.
Fortunately the guidebook to season 5 lets GM's have a little bit more leeway. The GM can make adjustments so long as it encourages everyone to have fun at the table.
So, even in PFS you will have (and are allowed to have by the rules of PFS) "Table Variance."
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I wonder what happens in PFS? :)
The GM makes a call and we move on with the game.
I tend to shunt the newly enlarged PC if there is room, or those adjacent if there is not.
I like the opposed Strength idea, and I second the notion of preventing players from gaming the system.
There really are no rules to cover this, although it is a "frequently asked question".