That's fine; I didn't mean to come off like I was criticizing you, I was just confused by the apparent contradiction.
Yeah, it's not just you. The beginning of that quote has him saying essentially "'priest = catchall term for worshipper", and then he's saying "mere worshipper =/= 'priest'". So I still don't know which is which.
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That's fine; I didn't mean to come off like I was criticizing you, I was just confused by the apparent contradiction.Yeah, it's not just you. The beginning of that quote has him saying essentially "'priest = catchall term for worshipper", and then he's saying "mere worshipper =/= 'priest'". So I still don't know which is which.
The way the discussion has evolved, it seems "priest" means "person who does the things outlined in the 'a priest's role' sections in Inner Sea Gods." These tend to be variations on ministering to the faithful, and tend not to imply specific classes. You can be an Expert priest, but a Cleric or a Bard or an Inquisitor or a Wizard or a Paladin priest might be considered better at priesting, depending on the faith and its priorities.
Creative Director
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That's fine; I didn't mean to come off like I was criticizing you, I was just confused by the apparent contradiction.Yeah, it's not just you. The beginning of that quote has him saying essentially "'priest = catchall term for worshipper", and then he's saying "mere worshipper =/= 'priest'". So I still don't know which is which.
Which is why I clarified my statement a few posts above.
Which is why I clarified my statement a few posts above.That's fine; I didn't mean to come off like I was criticizing you, I was just confused by the apparent contradiction.Yeah, it's not just you. The beginning of that quote has him saying essentially "'priest = catchall term for worshipper", and then he's saying "mere worshipper =/= 'priest'". So I still don't know which is which.
No, see, that's my hang-up. Your clarification statement just says "look in Inner Sea Gods for the definition". I did, and while that book says a lot about the roles of these priests of this deity or those priests of that deity, it never actually comes out and says "this is what we're calling a priest". So I'm left with your previous statement that says "priests = worshippers" and then says "worshippers =/= priests".
Which is what I cannot make heads or tails of. I looked in what I believe to be all the likely places in Inner Sea Gods. What did I miss?
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I thought the examples given in the old Gods and Magic made it fairly clear: Priest is a position of authority and service (over/to the greater proportion of worshippers) within a church/temple, and while it usually corresponds to the Cleric class, it doesn't always.
Indeed, given Shamira's speculated origins, she might have figured out how to siphon Sarenrae's power to give to increasingly corrupt Cult of the Dawnflower members without Sarenrae's consent or even knowledge.
Hmm, and a Paladin "falling" into NG has been a scenario that has interested me for quite some time.
I considered it a couple of times. Probably came close too. The range of an Alignment is a lot of fun. In our kingmaker game, we had a LG Sorcerer and my LG Paladin. The way we played them was very different though. It was long agreed that if we ever shifted alignment... The sorcerer would have been LN while my Paladin would have shifted to NG.
He was lawful... but he recognized the situations where good people would suffer from too strict laws. As the king it led to some fascinating role playing with the Lawful vs Good discrepancy. He almost always leaned toward the kindness and forgiveness if he had any window he could...
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"look in Inner Sea Gods for the definition". I did, and while that book says a lot about the roles of these priests of this deity or those priests of that deity, it never actually comes out and says "this is what we're calling a priest".
It varies by the faith, and not all of the write-ups specify.
In the 'A Priest's Role' section on Desna, for instance, on page 47, it's in the first sentence. "Priests of Desna - including clerics, bards, rogues, rangers, and occasionally druids..."
For Gorum, it's not as upfront, but goes on to say that, "Nearly all of Gorum's priests are clerics. A few battle-druids are part of the clergy, however... [snip] War-bards and rangers serve the church in essential roles, but are not considered clergy." before going on to talk about inquisitors (but not specifying whether or not they are considered 'priests').
A more formal setup would be easier to read, perhaps, but it's going to change every time Paizo releases new classes like the warpriest (which would seem to be a 'priest' by definition) or the inquisitor or the oracle (which may or may not be a priest of some deity, depending on the individual oracle).
Ultimately, it's not terribly vital for adventuring PCs, since few, if any, serve as priests, performing marriages or funerals, or leading weekly services, or any of that priestly stuff, even in the case of PC clerics who are (nominally) part of some church hierarchy. In my experience, playing clerics preferentially, less than one time in ten do I end up operating out of a community that has a temple to my characters god, or part of a party with other worshippers of that god, making my character, essentially, a 'church' of one person, serving as 'priest' to exactly no one.
*If* a PC cleric (or other 'priest') ends up performing priestly duties, again, in my experience, that's entirely on the player character to introduce and do in-character, since a published adventure will almost never deal with that sort of thing (which is logical, since most D&D-like fantasy settings have pantheons of dozens of gods, making it remotely unlikely that a PC will be playing a cleric of whatever deity the writer chose to focus on anyway).
I'd leave it up to the player and the GM, to determine whether a PC is a 'priest' of their religion. A fighter serving as a 'priest' of Nethys seems quite unlikely, unless they have the Child of Acavna Archetype and are also a caster. An alchemist or rogue serving as a priest of Norgorber (in his aspect as Blackfingers or the Gray Master), on the other hand, seems quite appropriate.
But any such priestly status, for any PC, even a cleric, should come with some responsibilities to the church and its heirarchy, which might cut into adventuring convenience...
A fighter serving as a 'priest' of Nethys seems quite unlikely, unless they have the Child of Acavna Archetype and are also a caster.
now I'm interested... Maybe they use only magical weapons or something? Hm.