Could someone help clarify some issues with magic armor?

[bookwormbabe29]

Hey there!

So I'm trying to learn the tricks to magic armor, getting a nice high AC, and a handy discount with crafting. I have a level 12 Cleric with plenty of gold, taking craft magic arms and armor, and I'm trying to figure out the best AC armor I can craft and/or afford. I've read the rules, but I'm still not clear on a few things.

1. Some specific armors are listed with a specific bonus, like Celestial full plate is a Full plate +3. Can you make/find a items that go over these listed numbers, like a celestial plate mail with a +5 bonus, or is that not allowed? How would you calculate the cost of such a thing if allowed?

2. In trying to figure out the highest AC (assuming all proficiency and high enough DEX for max benefit) I look at things like Celestial full plate vs mithral full plate +5. Mithral full plate +5 mail gives you your standard 9 AC for full plate, +5 enchantment, and allows 3 DEX for a total of 17. Celestial Full Plate is supposed to be a full plate +3... but it allows for 6 DEX. 9 for full plate, +3 enchantment, and this 6 DEX bonus and we get 18 AC. How does that work, mechanically? How does a set of full plate with a lower enchantment bonus give that much more DEX, and allow for a Fly spell as well?

3. If you have a set of Mithral Full Plate +5, and cast an enchantment spell like Magic Vestment, does it do anything? Both are enchantment effects if I'm reading this right, so I don't think they stack. It's one of those those things that confuses me, as the bonus from Magic Vestment can be dispelled, but the bonus from Mithral full plate +5 can't be dispelled to my knowledge. Or am I wrong?

So yea, clarification would be a huge help. Bottom line, I'm trying to figure out the system's top AC armor's and their cost, and not getting anywhere on my own research. Any help would be appreciated!

And ah, hopefully I am posting this in the right place. I didn't think it qualified for a 'rules question' but I could be wrong. If I am...sorry?

As always, thank you for your time.

[Jeraa]

bookwormbabe29 wrote:

1. Some specific armors are listed with a specific bonus, like Celestial full plate is a Full plate +3. Can you make/find a items that go over these listed numbers, like a celestial plate mail with a +5 bonus, or is that not allowed? How would you calculate the cost of such a thing if allowed?

That is entirely up to the GM. Many magic items don't stick to a formula for pricing, but were just given a price that felt right by the designers.

Quote:

2. In trying to figure out the highest AC (assuming all proficiency and high enough DEX for max benefit) I look at things like Celestial full plate vs mithral full plate +5. Mithral full plate +5 mail gives you your standard 9 AC for full plate, +5 enchantment, and allows 3 DEX for a total of 17. Celestial Full Plate is supposed to be a full plate +3... but it allows for 6 DEX. 9 for full plate, +3 enchantment, and this 6 DEX bonus and we get 18 AC. How does that work, mechanically? How does a set of full plate with a lower enchantment bonus give that much more DEX, and allow for a Fly spell as well?

Celestial armor is a unique type of armor, with special properties. Thats what allows it to have a larger than normal Max Dex and the ability to let the wearer Fly.

Quote:

3. If you have a set of Mithral Full Plate +5, and cast an enchantment spell like Magic Vestment, does it do anything? Both are enchantment effects if I'm reading this right, so I don't think they stack. It's one of those those things that confuses me, as the bonus from Magic Vestment can be dispelled, but the bonus from Mithral full plate +5 can't be dispelled to my knowledge. Or am I wrong?

Casting Magic Vestment on a suit of +5 armor does nothing. Bonuses of the same type (with few exceptions) do not stack. If the suit of armor had a lower enhancement bonus, then the spell might have an effect.

[DesolateHarmony]

You are on the right track with your questions, and have answered some of them yourself. Jeraa's information is spot on, but notice, the bonus from Magic Vestment and enchanting armor is an -enhancement- bonus, not an enchantment bonus.

Bonuses of the same time do not stack, only the better applies. The enhancement bonus on your armor increases the armor bonus that it supplies.

Your choice of armor has a lot to do with your eventual dexterity modifier, your proficiency with armor, and any class features that help you out (go-go armor training!)

To actually get your armor class way up there, you need to add in other bonuses. You have already:

Armor Bonus (including enhancement bonus to armor)
Maximum dexterity modifier allowed.

Other bonuses include:

Shield Bonus (including enhancement bonus to shield)
Natural Armor Bonus (including enhancement bonus to natural armor)
Deflection Bonus
Luck Bonus

and, less often from magic items:

Sacred/Profane Bonuses
Dodge bonuses.

There was a thread several months ago with breakdowns of armor benefits by costs. It was very detailed and thorough. I'll look for it, but I hope someone with better search-fu than I have links it.

[bookwormbabe29]

There are certainly other ways to boost AC, but most are fairly straight forward. The armor specifically is throwing me off, as I can't figure out how the rules apply to the situations I mentioned above. I thought it was just me, but maybe this IS a rules question.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Not sure where Celestial Plate is from, Celestial Armor is chainmail in UE.

The reason that you normally can't upgrade "Named" items, is because of things like this, where you get a massive discount in price, or it has extra abilities that don't have a good price scaling.

+5 Mithril Fullplate is 17 AC (assuming 16 dex) for 35k.

How much is this Celestial Fullplate? (I'm assuming it is like celestial armor, but with full plate instead of chainmail, and you mentioned a +6 dex max instead.)

NVM, found it. 25k gold, yeah. so, for scaling, upgrading it to +5 Celestial plate should make it cost 41k total IMO.

Normally, +3 Mithral fullplate would be 19500g, adding the +3 more dex and the fly 1/day is another 5500. (way underpriced, probably thought to be balanced because most characters in Fullplate are stacking Str not Dex, so never see the full +6 from the dex).

As for the Magic Vestment question, you got it right. It doesn't help once you get max enhancement to armor, but by the same token, it lasts hours per level. So you can get +1 armor, cast Magic vestment at level 12 to make it +3, and spend the rest of your money on other bonuses, like fortification, spell storing, etc.

Same for shields, for 2 1st level spell slots (or 1 and a 1k pearl of power), you get a +3 armor and shield, saving you 16k gold on defenses, or letting you get other +x equivalent powers instead.

[Ipslore the Red]

Celestial plate is from Skeletons of Scarwall, iirc. One of Paizo's AP books when it still used 3.5e rules, so some people might not allow it.