Chief Technical Officer
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This game seems to be off to a great start after year one. Releaseing base sets with expansions faster probably turns more people away then it gains in the long run. They should take a step back and think about this.
If I got to play CEO I'd have all of my employees ask as many fans and customers as they can what release schedule is best that would keep them buying.
Too fast and people feel like they can't keep up and stop buying, too slow and people get board waiting and may move on.
I vote for one base set per year.
We have sped up the release schedule precisely because we *are* listening to our customers. We put out a set every other month for a year, and our customers told us they wanted more.
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Chief Technical Officer
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[As we get closer to the start of the OP (Organized Play :-) ), have there been any decisions how progression will be handled? I understand that each AP is basically starting out with new characters each time. Makes sense overall when you're patterning the APs after the RPG APs. (Starting Kingmaker next week!) But if OP/PFSACG is patterned after PFS RPG, then you are carrying characters from scenario to scenario. Are you going to be publishing rules how "level" progression will work? What are the limits? How scenarios will be rated for "levels"?
Unlike PFS OP, we won't be publishing scenarios for different levels to pick and choose from. We're essentially publishing a new AP that runs alongside the S&S AP, where the first month's scenarios comprise Adventure 1, the next month's comprise Adventure 2, and so on. There will be ways to gauge your power level so you can jump in at different points, but we strongly recommend you play each of the scenarios in order, just as you do at home. (Remember you can always solo through adventures that you missed....)
And you responded that the OP scenarios will pull from the base set, adventure decks and the class decks, but just S&S or will we be utilizing the base set from that season? (i.e. Season 0 pulls from S&S)
Each OP season will be tied to the Base Set and expansions that are being released at the same time.
I completely understand that Paizo have upped the release schedule based on noise from the customers.
Having only got into this in March, we'll pick up Skulls & Shackles, probably a class deck or two. After that, who knows. It's a hell of a lot of money.
The thing which puzzles me slightly about the various "lack of content" complaints, is that nobody seems to be talking about the extra you get simply from there being a 2nd AP.
When you were still waiting for RotR AP 5, your only options were to re-play RotR 1-4 with different characters from the base set or the Character add-on deck.
When you're waiting for Skulls and shackles AP 5, you could re-play Skulls and Shackles with some RotR characters, you could take some S&S characters back to RotR (Feiya is on the art for half of the spells, it seems mean to leave her out) you could even mix in some "gun" boons from S&S to the RotR set and let Lirianne have a try. If you have a Class deck, you could probably take one of those characters, and try with them. Come to that, you can just go back and re-play RotR using only RotR content, now that you've seen the nastiness AP 6 has in store, and you want to prepare differently.
1 AP + 1 AP = a lot more than just 2 APs.
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How about Mage Wars ? If I recall correctly only 3 or 4 cards have an errata so far, and even those where changed for balance reasons. Also, 1 card got a trait recently,which were nonexistent at the time of it's release - so it can be combined with the Druid's powers. For PACG not much errata fits into this category, maybe only Restoration and one of the locations. But there are many traits or immunities left of, misprints (Detect Magic), a complete sentence - the main power - missing on an armor etc.
Actually compared to other products like Magic, the amount of errata: fixes and clarifications, isn't so bad. A lot of the errata is more of rewording the text so that while it says the same thing, it falls into the same wording as other cards. I'm not sure how you see that all the errata put together over this past year is that much of a concern compared to other games.
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Regardless, looking at a different angle, I feel that 2 AP released too close to each other decrease the sales for both, as many players will decide to buy one or the another. I know many players in my area - myself included - who didn't even finished RotR in this 1 year circle, so a new AP/6 month is not even a question for us.
In one side OP scenairos will try to get customers to buy every release, but at the same time counteracts this by increasing the replay value of a box. Class Decks are needed for OP, but they also increase the replay value of EVERY box you have, which also decrease the urge to buy more and more big boxes.
Of course, I have a different prespective than US players, where it's possible that the local store has the big boxes and you buy only 1-2-3 Class Decks to play maybe for years without futher investment. If I want to play I have to provide each component myself.
But again, players like me weren't the considered target audience when the new release plan was decided. We can still get our AP if we want, but OP for example isn't even a question.
They (Paizo) have been listening to the demand of their customers for more content. So while you may feel that it will negatively impact the sales of the game, it seems like the majority of the feedback tells them "MORE!".
And with OP, they are aiming at two markets, obviously the home market for people like you and I that purchase the AP set and the adventure decks. And maybe, because it takes us a year to get through the content, we hold off on the second AP six months later. I enjoy playing with my friends and family but schedules make playing times chaotic.
But that's why there's the second market target, the gathered play. This takes fewer base sets and adv decks but more class decks. People won't have to purchase the AP if the store purchases one (or two). But they will need class decks. And the OP will require the next AP in six months.
I'm sure, like Vic has said, that if the sales aren't as good as they thought, they'll adjust.
Epic adventure with thousands of loot with heroes beyond what is in PACG and with the at least more or less the same theme.
For now i am out of the boat.
They abandoned my wizard i abandon them
I don't understand why people are so against starting over with new characters. It just wouldn't be feasible to keep scaling the game upwards. I'm nearing the end of AP5 Sins of the Saviours and I am already rolling 8/9 dice on some checks and have more powers than I can keep track of (admittedly I play solo with four characters). It would be impossible to accommodate and balance such powerful heroes.
Also, if they made content solely for those who had completed RotRL, it would have diminishing sales returns, as only those who had played a whole pathfinder path would want to play that content.
I love the characters I am playing at the moment, but 'm really looking forward to starting over in RotRL with new characters, to see how they compare. And with S&S, again can't wait to see how those characters play.
They (Paizo) have been listening to the demand of their customers for more content. So while you may feel that it will negatively impact the sales of the game, it seems like the majority of the feedback tells them "MORE!".I think you made some very valid points.
On the other hand, I think they based their plans of the customer responses they get in their official forum, which I don't know how big percentage of their PACG playerbase. But honestly, I think you find more really dedicated PACG fans here - myself included, even if I criticize - than overall, so it may be misleading.
For me it seems that Paizo takes sales numbers for granted - S&S and 7 class decks releases next month, and we are yet to see a single official preview. If you follow any other cardgame/boardgame manufacturer, you may know how far is it from the norm. Or you may take a look how much focus the new Class Guide gets for the Pathfinder RPG, and that how you generate interest and sell a product!
Basicaly you want your customers to be able to make an educated decision about purchases and preorders, which is hardly the case here. Without some awesome unofficial previews most of us would yet to see any single card from the August releases, not even mentioning new mechanics like ships and plunder.
For now I decided to don't order/buy any PACG product after RotR until much more information is available, but I'm really interested to see S&S and the Class Decks.
Paizo doesnt really show mechanical preiviews for much. any preview ive seen has been from a beta or demo.that being said until i see more ive only ordered the class deck i intend to use for open play to see bbefore i go crazy with them.
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Zoltan, there have been demos and previews shown here. There are links showing Mike talking about S&S. They've shown us the new Valeros and other cards. They've talked about skills and crafting.
So what is it that you're not seeing yet? You want an official list of cards and some description of them? You didn't have that with RotR. You bought it and played it. At this point we know a bit about S&S and a bit about PFSACG/OP. So if you're holding back until you actually see the new elements played like ships, etc., don't complain that there haven't been "official" previews because there have been previews by official people.
What we haven't seen any previews for are the class decks. But the only thing about the class decks I'd think we'd want to see are how the 4 included characters are different from each other. We've been introduced to an alternate rogue and told what direction his abilities are geared for. But not specifics. On the other hand, as a Pathfinder RPG player, I know enough about that game to glimmer what we'll be seeing.
feylund, just remember that if you are going to run those class decks in any home version (non-OP run) of the OP scenarios, you'll need S&S and those Adv decks.
feylund, just remember that if you are going to run those class decks in any home version (non-OP run) of the OP scenarios, you'll need S&S and those Adv decks.
i do plan on getting s&s but i was getting the deck solely to try open play. if i find i like the mechanics of the op i will be splurging to get other class decks for some variety.
i do believe i have seen enough of the game from various snipets of play as well as what card pictures i have dug to say its worth an initial investment. i may even sleeve this time around since i will have a full set of promos and hopefully correctly printed cards.
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i do plan on getting s&s but i was getting the deck solely to try open play. if i find i like the mechanics of the op i will be splurging to get other class decks for some variety.
i do believe i have seen enough of the game from various snipets of play as well as what card pictures i have dug to say its worth an initial investment. i may even sleeve this time around since i will have a full set of promos and hopefully correctly printed cards.
For me, the OP will allow me to play with people outside my group of family and friends without impacting my base set and adv decks. I don't really plan on playing the OP scenarios outside of actual OP being run locally. I am still concerned about how OP will work with a fluid set of players (possibly) from week to week. I think once we get a better idea of interest at the store, we'll have better questions for Paizo.
As far as sleeving, there were two reasons for me. Playing with people outside of family and friends, you're not sure how well they'll treat your cards. And two, I ended up printing the errata that Hawkmoon posted on BGG and slipped them onto the sleeved cards. I disliked the idea of writing on my cards like I've seen others do. And the two reasons marry well.
I did preorder the Ultra-Pro PACG sleeves to see how well they shuffle versus the UP clear ones (which I need for double-sided cards anyway). And if we like them, we'll probably go that way with our OP set at the store.
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Then I guess the only recommendation I have for you is to wait. Let the product come out and read the various reviews and videos after it is released at GenCon. If that justifies the purchase then I hope you enjoy S&S or maybe the next WotR set. I don't know what avenues you have to play in the EU but maybe see if a local store is running a game and try it. The mechanics are going to shift a bit it seems.
As far as my comment about playing RPGs, I was talking about the four characters per class deck. I can glimmer how one rogue would be different than the next, etc. Wasn't talking about the actual class deck.
As for myself, I have faith in Paizo and their products. I bought my RotR set at GenCon last year and have not regretted the decision. If fact, (as you can see) I became a subscriber. I still have faith that S&S will be another hit. (Besides the fact that I'm trying to get one of our GMs to run the adv path!) So I will continue my subscription thru that point and pick my new base set in about a month. I'll also be picking up class decks because as soon as I get home, I'll be co-hosting OP at the local comic store.
The guy that is also running it has not played RotR but has demoed S&S at Origins and really enjoyed it. There are certain companies that I'll take a chance with because they make good products. Would I risk a bundle of cash on a card game from WotC based on D&D? No. They may have made a ton of money on Magic, but not sure if I'll trust them with D&D products without a lot of play testing first.
Unlike PFS OP, we won't be publishing scenarios for different levels to pick and choose from. We're essentially publishing a new AP that runs alongside the S&S AP, where the first month's scenarios comprise Adventure 1, the next month's comprise Adventure 2, and so on.
I am playing Skull and Shackles in real PF. I was considering not opening some of the later packages of the card game until I am through them in the game.
Would you consider the OP scenarios as also being spoilers for S&S?
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Unlike PFS OP, we won't be publishing scenarios for different levels to pick and choose from. We're essentially publishing a new AP that runs alongside the S&S AP, where the first month's scenarios comprise Adventure 1, the next month's comprise Adventure 2, and so on.I am playing Skull and Shackles in real PF. I was considering not opening some of the later packages of the card game until I am through them in the game.
Would you consider the OP scenarios as also being spoilers for S&S?
The Adventure and Scenario cards plus the Villains and Henchmen would be the biggest spoilers. So I'd have to agree with you to hold off opening the decks if you want the AP chapters to be a surprise.
The Adventure and Scenario cards plus the Villains and Henchmen would be the biggest spoilers. So I'd have to agree with you to hold off opening the decks if you want the AP chapters to be a surprise.
Unlike PFS OP, we won't be publishing scenarios for different levels to pick and choose from. We're essentially publishing a new AP that runs alongside the S&S AP, where the first month's scenarios comprise Adventure 1, the next month's comprise Adventure 2, and so on.I am playing Skull and Shackles in real PF. I was considering not opening some of the later packages of the card game until I am through them in the game.
Would you consider the OP scenarios as also being spoilers for S&S?
Yeah, but OP Scenarios (I'm assuming) have their own Adventures and their own Scenarios (and maybe their own Villains) so I wouldn't necessarily have to look at those cards.
That's essentially what I'm asking. Are the OP Scenarios different enough that it would only be mild spoilers?
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Chief Technical Officer
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The PFSACG scenarios do use the villains and other cards from S&S. And the storyline will be different from—but will occasionally touch upon—the AP storyline. But it should spoil it no more than the RotR set spoils RotR (which is to say, by most people's definitions, not much; by other people's definitions, too much.)
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The PFSACG scenarios do use the villains and other cards from S&S. And the storyline will be different from—but will occasionally touch upon—the AP storyline. But it should spoil it no more than the RotR set spoils RotR (which is to say, by most people's definitions, not much; by other people's definitions, too much.)
Vic, I think it also depends how much you get into the flavor text. But you still do get an idea about what big bads you'll be facing in the APs from the Villains and Henchmen.
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Vic, I think it also depends how much you get into the flavor text. But you still do get an idea about what big bads you'll be facing in the APs from the Villains and Henchmen.
True though the villains/henchmen in the card game only reveal their existence in the card game. The way your group in the RPG handles the fight would definitely be different than the check to defeat on the card.
Obviously the names and existence of the villains are spoilers but i like that the card game team has made them minimally spoilery. In OP we may even lose the context of where a villain might be encountered as the plot of the scenario would be different. The only thing you would get at that point then would be the existence of these guys within a book of the AP.