Is this the right place to put a homebrew class? As far as I can tell it is. If so I'll post what I have for a warslinger (which is a decent alternate Level 1 NPC Class, or roleplaying)
Mind you I only have the first ten levels done...
edit: Since I'm not seeing a reason not to I'll just add it. Next post for the class, then the post after for weapons entry.
Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: D6
Weapon & Armor Proficiency: Simple weapons, and all Slings types (short, long, War Slings and Sling Staffs). Light armor and shields. A shield doesn't hinder use of a sling.
Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge Local (Int), Knowledge Nature (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex)
Skill Ranks: 6+Int
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 0 0 2 2 AP Light & Shields, WP Slings (all), WF Slings, Sling Anything, Quick Reload, Improved Critical (slings), Improved Damage (Slings)
2 1 0 3 3 Enchant Bullets +1, Bouncing Shot, Trick Shot, Craft/Recover Ammo, point-blank shot
3 2 1 3 3 Boosting Aura +1, True Strike, Precise Shot
4 3 1 4 4 Summon Sling, Ranged Sunder, Dazing Shot
5 3 1 4 4 Enchant Bullets +2, DR bypass, Exploding bullets (5ft/+1), AC vs ranged, Increased Range (20ft/100ft)
6 4 2 5 5 Boosting Aura +2, Catch/Return Bullet, Bestow Quick Reload
7 5 2 5 5 Faster True Strike (Move), Auto Feign, Exploding Bullets (10ft/+2)
8 6/1 2 6 6 Enchant Bullets +3, Improved Range Sunder,
9 6/1 3 6 6 Boosting Aura +3, Exploding Bullets (15ft/+3), ManyShot
10 7/2 3 7 7 Faster True Strike (Swift), Killing Blow
Note: Combat ammo skills (exploding bullet, dazing shot, bouncing shot, trick shot, killing blow) all can be used once per WarSlinger level per day. Non-combat or non-ammo skills are unlimited/day (enchant bullets, True strike, craft ammo, summon sling)
Weapon Focus: Slings give a +1 to hit.
Sling Anything: Not satisfied with only slinging rocks, bullets, or other things. If it fits in the pouch and is round or oval shaped, it can be slung. Flasks, bags, mud balls, flaming tar as a few examples.
Quick Reload: Loading and reloading is a free action now for any and all sling types.
Improved Critical: Doubles the threat range of a critical for Slings. (19-20)
Improved Damage: Base damage increases by one category on all bullet types. Non bullet types (ie: Flask of acid) get +1 to it's effective damage, or to it's save (reflex to sand in the face).
Enchant Bullets: As a swift action you can enchant 1 bullet, or as a move action you can enchant a number of bullets equal to your total HitDice. This lasts a number of rounds equal to your HitDice. You can also enchant a mundane sling this way.
Bouncing/Trick Shot: Once per Warslinger level per day, he can do a bouncing or trick shot. Bouncing takes advantage of a nearby wall to bypass cover. A trick shot however the WarSlinger can do seemingly impossible shots within twenty feet.
Craft/Recover Ammo: Crafting ammo with mundane materials quickly and easily, and can make 10 times as much ammo per hour (minimum of 50, with appropriate tools on hand). Recovery of expended ammo increases to 75%.
Point blank shot: You get a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet
Boosting Aura: In a range of 50 feet, all allies using slings get a morale boost to their hit and damage by the boost.
True Strike (Su): As a standard action a WarSlinger can cast True Strike on himself. Unlike normal True Strike, the WarSlinger must declare who his target is for his next attack. If that target is unavailable the True Strike bonus is lost.
Precise Shot: No penalty for shooting into melee
Summon Sling: Summon a single magical sling. It has a +1 to hit/damage per 3 levels of WarSlinger. It will last as long as it is held by the WarSlinger.
Ranged Sunder: While Sundering the target's hardness is treated as having 5 less.
Dazing Shot: As a free action to declare and use, on a successful hit the opponent must make a will check DC 10 + Warslinger level + Wis modifier. If he fails he is dazed for 1d3+1 rounds and will drop anything held in his hands.
DR bypass: While enchanting bullets specified types of DR can be bypassed equal to the number of levels in WarSlinger.
Exploding Bullets: As a swift action a single projectile (enchanted or otherwise) can be set to explode causing splash damage of 1/2, with all effects from the bullet affecting all targets. Afterwards the projectile/ammo cannot be recovered. Extends splash damage to 5 feet.
AC vs ranged: A WarSlinger's AC increases adding his WarSlinger class levels, but only against ranged attacks.
Increased Range: Ranges of all slings increase by 20ft for Long/Short/staff slings and 100ft for War/Long Slings.
Catch/Return Bullet: Once per round if a projectile is thrown and misses the WarSlinger (due to increased AC vs ranged) the WarSlinger can catch the bullet in mid-flight in his sling, redirect and fire it at the original attacker as an AOO.
Bestow Quick Reload: Other Slingers within 50ft get the benefit of Quick Reload as though they had the feat/ability.
Auto Feign: With small bullets (iron or lead) the bullets can't be perceived while in flight, so targets beyond 30ft don't get their Dex bonus against the WarSlinger and are considered flatfooted.
Improved Range sunder: While Sundering the target's hardness is treated as having 10 less.
ManyShot: Load a second bullet and get a second attack at the same bonus as your first attack. (Same as ManyShot feat)
Faster True Strike: The casting time of True Strike is lowered by one step (From standard to move, or move to swift).
Killing Blow: Can be used once per WarSlinger class level per day. Must be declared before the attack. On a successful strike add 2d6 to the base damage. If it's a critical hit, add 4d6 to the base damage instead.
Weapons:
Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type Special
Simple:
Sling -- 1d3 1d4 x2 50ft -- B
Martial:
Short Sling 5sp -- -- -- 50ft -- B
Long Sling 5sp -- -- -- 250ft -- B Can't have anything Adjacent
War Sling 300gp -- -- (19-20) 100ft -- B
Ammo:
River Stones -- 1d4 1d6 x2 2 B -2 hit
Clay Bullets 5sp 1d4 1d6 x2 1 B
Iron Bullets 5gp 1d4+1 1d6+1 x2 x2 2.5 B
Lead Glandes 10gp 1d6+1 1d6+1 x3 x2 2 B/S
Weapons:
Sling: The strength of a sling and how it's used is dependent on the size of the leather cup and the length of the strings. The default [color=green]'sling'[/color] listed has it's string six inches to a foot long. Ammo tends to be really small, so it's effectiveness is lower than other types of slings.
Short Sling: The string length is increased (2-3 feet) and cup size increased. This allows projectiles to reach faster speeds than can be thrown, and also use larger and/or denser ammo. Add Strength and a half to damage.
Long Sling: With string lenghts three feet or longer the sling requires plenty of room to use. Used for long distances and can't be used near anything within 5 feet. Add Strength and a half to damage.
War Sling: Basically a Short Sling, only it's lovingly crafted and masterwork quality. Due to precision work the cup and the best materials and built to last. Likely includes intricate patterns in it's plaited braid and even reinforced with some wire. The extra work increases the range and gives a +1 to hit. Rarely are these found in shops, rather experienced Slingers tend to make their own (and several of them). Add Strength and a half to damage.
Ammo: - Prices/weight is assumed in groups of 10.
River Stones: Free to find as you walk along a river bank or down the road. Due to non-uniform shape firing accurately is more difficult (-2 to hit). About the size and shape of an egg.
Clay bullets: Rolled with Clay and other materials, then fired or let to dry they will all be the same size and shape that accuracy is no longer an issue. Can also be made or bought in bulk. A little bigger than an egg.
Iron Bullets: Iron or steel balls used for machining and for musket/revolver users, these are heavier than the Clay counterparts but tend to do more damage. Slightly smaller than Clay bullets and river stones, usually quite round.
Lead Glandes: Heavy and dense ammo, they are rather small for their size but pack the most punch and travel the fastest and farthest. A quarter the size of Clay bullets and oval shaped. Quite often they Pierce armor and embed themselves into enemies.
(First post is locked from editing... oh well I'll add it the last part here)
The WarSlinger:
A round of laughter from the medium sized men as well armed bandits stood together. In front of them was a halfling; Although having a knife on his hip, it was hardly a fighting weapon. No they laughed at his challenge to beat them using only his sling, or more importantly his sling staff. Most of the men were armored, one even in full plate.
"Alright! If you can even fell ONE of us, we'll let you go" Said the most burly of the bandits, but he wasn't looking at the halfling, he looked at the wagon of loot (and not cheap loot either).
The halfling looked over the men and then smiled. "Sounds good. Too bad for you, ever heard of the story of 'David and Goliath'?"
"Who and who?" Followed by another bout of laughter.
Moments later with a lead bullet loaded he slung it at the bandits who stood less than twenty feet away. Faster than the eye could see the bullet flew, followed by a soft grunt came from the bandit in full plate as the lead bullet embedded itself in his forehead; Moments later falling back dead. What laughter there was came to a halt as the five remaining bandits had not only surprise and utter shock in their eyes but rage. They weren't suppose to lose afterall to a halfling with a string and a stone.
The halfling whistled already having loading another lead bullet, and the wagon opened up, out came the rest of his family, his wife and two kids already loaded with slings. "I do believe this is the part where you run away..."
Role:
The WarSlinger is good at the sling and ranged combat; They are also adept at controlling the battle field. Where Sorcerers may throw fireballs, the WarSlinger throws bullets that explode, vials full of acid, and makes shots around corners; They also are enlisted to send messages between groups hundreds of yards away. A WarSlinger truly shines when commanding a formation of other slingers, their effectiveness is increased under his direction and skill.
It's not uncommon for Peasants, Shepards, Halfings and NPC's to have some levels of WarSlinger.
For now I will comment just in a couple of things
d6 damage or d6 hitpoints? For damage it's a straight upgrade for more specialized slings closing the gap between bows and slings.
Yet there's a 'throw anything' feat....
Trick shot from other sources is basically you can have non-line of sight shots. Going around corners perhaps. I can see hitting a button from weaving between walls if it's close enough, but it's not much for a fighting skill, more roleplaying, kinda like profession acting...
Dazing/stun shot is sorta added as I wasn't sure what to add that would make sense while keeping it mostly magically minimal.
---
Due to the sheer number of feats required to bring a sling up to par with a bow, just making an archetype won't work probably with Pathfinder. Of course if you only took just the first level of Warslinger the gaps go away and then you can grow normally.
I really wish it was more like HeroSystem where you are given points and just build the character you want and use the system rather than be shackled by the system to try and play what you want.
No, this is not the right forum. This should be in Suggestions/Houserules/Homebrew. I have flagged it as such.
No, this is not the right forum. This should be in Suggestions/Houserules/Homebrew. I have flagged it as such.
I waited something like an hour before I posted the rest of it... :(
Besides, why should it be under suggestions and not gaming? Sounds... confusing.
Pretty sure Nicos means why the d6 HD.
My question is - why do you particularly want this to be a dedicated NPC Class?
Pretty sure Nicos means why the d6 HD.
My question is - why do you particularly want this to be a dedicated NPC Class?
Well the D6 is because they aren't fighters (or do any real melee), but aren't wizards either... Doesn't mean they can't hold their own, but it's unlikely they would.
And I don't want it a dedicated NPC class. You can use a drop-in replacement for the first level of expert easily, which makes very poor NPC's who have spent a long time using a sling (because it's cheap) to become proficient in it's use.
Expert Level 1 - I'm a weak nobody
WarSlinger level 1 - I'm an poor NPC with a sling... and I know how to use it
@Age of Crane: I like the concept, the idea. I too question the d6 HD though. Also shields don't hinder sling use: this means that w/the quick reload the slinger is, what; holding a heavy shield in one hand and with the other - hurling their sling in the air, grabbing a bullet, throwing it in the air, grabbing their sling back, spinning the cup to catch the falling ammo in mid-air, and then slinging said ammo all in six seconds? That seems... unearthly.
Still I like the concept of it. I also like the fiction. I can see the doughty Halfling, grinning like a Cheshire cat as the bandits scatter like rats, his own son's clay shot stinging one of them in the rear as they go!
Hopefully the mechanics tighten up on this.
@Mark Hoover - This means that w/the quick reload the slinger is, what; holding a heavy shield in one hand and with the other - hurling their sling in the air, grabbing a bullet, throwing it in the air, grabbing their sling back, spinning the cup to catch the falling ammo in mid-air, and then slinging said ammo all in six seconds? That seems... unearthly.
Slingers in history had a pouch on their hip where they would store their bullets/balls/glandes so throwing it in the air is less likely than pulling a bullet out and dropping it letting it catch in the pouch. Or having the pouch close to where you would hold the shield and you can pull a bullet out and hold it in your shield hand before loading it.
Even with quick reloading though, unless you have a high enough BAB you're only shooting one a round... Although if you already had 5 levels in fighter and took Warslinger, you could use two attacks a round right away (which is why it's all in level 1).
@Nicos - Would making his HD a D8 or D10 really make a difference? I'd rather give him 2 more skill points per level...
Nothing else? No other thoughts?
Unlimited true strike at level 3 is kind of insane. Infinite swift action true strike is almost comical.
Replace all references to Hit Die with references to class level.
Auto feign is too good and does not make sense with the rest of pathfinder's rules. Guns don't ignore dex bonus and neither should your sling pellets.
Bestow quick reload is out of place and weird. It seems to be the only "leader-y" ability in the class.
I dunno. It all seems overpowered and all over the place.
If you just want this class as a bunch of antagonists then you can go that direction, I suppose. These might be interesting foes. Just make sure you don't abuse your own powers.
@Excaliburproxy - Unfortunately i can't edit my posts after an hour. So fixing hit dice/level probably won't happen. Besides i'm sure i used hit dice intentionally to reflect if you had racial/monster levels you could also benefit from.
True strike still takes a standard action to activate (effectively taking the time to aim). Even as a move/swift action you can only do 1 true strike per round (or alternating 1 and 2 if you're clever with managing your turns). I don't see that as a problem or overpowered.
A feat or 1st level spell-like ability is worth 2000g; at 3rd level you could easily buy a wand of quick strike which gives you slightly better benefits for only 750g.
Regarding auto feign; Guns you have to aim/point before firing; Slinging the motion is almost instant and the bullet goes in the air in an arc (and can be well above your head where you're not watching); You can't be sure where they aimed or where the bullet is (unless it's unusually large or on fire). It's also probably going to be at a long distance where the normal feign isn't even an option anymore, like 100-200 feet away. And unlike when the sky may darken from volleys of arrows, you don't get that with lead bullets, they are just too small, you would only really know you're being attacked when there's loud cracking sounds of wood snapping, or men going down screaming in agony. You can't dodge what you can't see. You can hide behind a tree...
Bestowing quick reload and damage/hit bonuses is (perhaps) the only thing i could give; This is with the idea he would probably be training them and showing them the finer points of slinging; It's more a morale bonus than anything else as in my mind. Maybe the last 10 levels they bestow more so they are a fierce force to be reckoned with in a larger party (even of low level followers).
So do you consider it overpowered when combined as a military unit of slingers (say 20 in the unit)? Or as a solo slinger in a party? I haven't had a chance to play-test the class, so maybe it needs to be lowered a notch, or maybe it's just fine the way it is.