What is the CR of this!!!!


Advice


First, I created an oracle arch-type specifically for my home game and then made these BBEG's main taskforce a few of these guys. They have a increased wealth by level, and I don't know how to adjudicate the CR. Also the CR might be increased a bit just for the abilities of the oracle archtype. I don't know. Please take a look. Give me any advice you like!

Also if your one of my players... don't look any further

Spoiler:
go to here..


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

if it is slightly less powerful than a PC of it's level then it is CR 2. if it could hold its own against a PC of level 3, it is CR 3. a NPC shouldn't be more powerful than a PC of it's level, and so if it is, nerf it.

edit: to test take a PC with a similar roll in the party and see who wins after a few matches. or make a PC with your rules to see how the fight goes.


I thought there was a way to determine additional CR for a higher WBL


increasing an NPC or monster WBL to 'player' WBL increases their CR by +1. AFAIK there are no rules for increasing CR if WBL is beyond this standard: it depends a lot on what the WBL is being spent on.

In general I don't think your NPC is overpowered, but it is strangely built and probably won't be much fun to fight. Your critter has extremely high AC for its level due to the +1 mithral full plate and +1 tower shield. At level 3, and AC of 29 is practically unhittable (will require 20's). If your players are high enough level to hit this AC reliably, the NPC is going to struggle to do any real damage to them in return. Is this intentional? Coupled with the silence effect, concealment and slow speed, this monster will be extremely frustrating to fight because it is going to take forever to bring it down as you slowly kite around it hoping for natural 20s and no misses. In an enclosed area less than 40ft in radius this NPC could very well cause a TPK by attrition alone unless the party has silent metamagics or an easy way to get touch attacks.

Why have you boosted the WBL to hugely, out of interest? When your players kill these guys they are going to get ~15,000 GP each. They're basically walking money pots.

My advice if they are low level and fighting these things would be to drop the expensive gear entirely and default to normal NPC WBL. This brings the AC back to a more reasonable range (that's at least 3 points down to AC 24, which is still really hard to hit) and gives them a 20ft silence radius, which is still annoying but not quite as deadly. If they are high level and fighting these guys, drop WBL and increase hit die to give them more offensive options.

Also, you should give them blindsense, not blindsight. Lifesense operates as blindsight so there's no blindness penalty and it invalidates the need for blind fighting etc. They really shouldn't be getting lifesense here. If they only have blindsense they lose a few more AC (no dex, now down to 23, much more reasonable for CR 3) and have an obvious and interesting weakness (sneak attacks as they are always flat footed).

Also also, correct me if wrong, but shouldn't the AC bonus be only +10 in your sheet? +9 mithral full plate, +1 enhancement. That'd bring the AC to 22.


Well when they are encountered their divine shield spells will be active. Also they should have some dodge bonus. But it is possible i did the math wrong. The 6 pc's will be around level 6 and sitting in a tavern. These things will be entering tavern along with a number of skeletons and zombies.


I think you are right about the life sense. I will change that to blind sense. The armor will be cursed as well. Sense you just cannot put on someone else platemail without it being adjusted. They will have the opportunity to learn they wont get full half price for the armor.


They have access to a cleroc who will perform the remove curse for free anyhow.


The reason for these guys is that the entire city is supposed to be taken unawares by a number of these things and their undead friends.

I'm hoping for the fight to be difficult but doable. One of the pcs is an undead lord so it should not overwhelm the pcs.

The scene will be like this.

As you are sitting at your normal table in the back, enjoying the performance of your rogue comrad dancing on the stage, everything in the tavern goes eerily quiet. You look around and at the entrance you see billowing fog(obscuring mist) and out from the fog comes dozens of skeletons and zombies attacking the other patrons and you. Everyone roll initiative.


The encounter itself sounds pretty rad and I like the concept, just worried a bit about the execution. I'm assuming you posted it on here for feedback after all!

Limiting access to NPC gear because 'it is cursed' is a pretty lame way of limiting WBL IMO. Your party will probably end up melting the mithril down to resell or similar, just to spite you. YMMV though.

More importantly, the AC. I think you need to look at this chart.

Notice how the recommended AC for a CR 4 monster (roughly what your guys are) is 17? The AC you have outfitted them with is equivalent to a CR 14 monster. This should tell you straight away something is off.

To think of it another way, a full BAB class at level 6 with a 20 in their main stat will be hitting with at least a +12 on his first iterative with a magic weapon. Against this monster, who on its own as a CR 4 monster should be a simple encounter expending no daily resources, they are requiring a 17+ to hit. Second iterative, A 3/4 BAB class or 1/2 BAB class will only be hitting on 20s, and there's still the concealment to factor in.

My recommendation is still to drop the AC down to mid 20's (losing the +2 dex, which they shouldn't have anyway due to being blind, and the magic armour would make them AC 25, which is still high but not unbeatable) but increase the HD of the monster to bring its CR back in line and make it more of a threat. As it stands all of its abilities do nothing but drag the combat out without posing a tangible threat to anything but a party of all casters (and only then if they are trapped in a room).


The mixture of blindness and the lame curse is reasonable to drop the dex
Maybe drop the armor to be a breastplate or something
Maybe living metal
Or cthonic steel

Increase HD and maybe add a bit more of an offensive ability to it
With it's limited mobility, maybe it's be better off as an archer that somehow uses charisma or str for its attacks?
Or maybe give it a telikinetic ability at will
Like a ranged attack based on charisma and BAB that allows it to ...oh I dunno...
Throw javelins?
Spears
Axes
Daggers
Hell big ass rocks work fine
Maybe they throw the damn zombies at you
Btw
Bloody skeletons are awesome


AmyGames wrote:

The mixture of blindness and the lame curse is reasonable to drop the dex

Maybe drop the armor to be a breastplate or something
Maybe living metal
Or cthonic steel

Increase HD and maybe add a bit more of an offensive ability to it
With it's limited mobility, maybe it's be better off as an archer that somehow uses charisma or str for its attacks?
Or maybe give it a telikinetic ability at will
Like a ranged attack based on charisma and BAB that allows it to ...oh I dunno...
Throw javelins?
Spears
Axes
Daggers
Hell big ass rocks work fine
Maybe they throw the damn zombies at you
Btw
Bloody skeletons are awesome

Isn't their a bandolier or something that auto returns items if you throw them in the same round you draw them? If so, I can reduce the magical weapon into a bunch of masterwork ones. Thrown weapons still work off of Dexterity right?


blinkback belt


Glutton wrote:
blinkback belt

Yep, that is it. Thanks


So, I took some of your advice and made some changes. Such as the armor change and increased his hit dice. I didn't go with a ranged weapon, but I did exchange it for one with reach. Since he no longer wears heavy armor but medium armor, I got rid of the Revelation that gave heavy armor proficiency and exchanged it for Maneuver Mastery. And also chose the EWP Mancatcher. this weapon in my opinion is a very under used weapon that can be awesome with the right build. It is very effective sense it targets touch AC. This guy is using a small version of the weapon to wield it one handed and taking the -2 penalty for the size difference. In combat, this guy will try to grapple anyone that gets within melee range, and if target is grappled, his skeletons and zombie minions will gang up on the grappled individual.

His spells are mostly buffs or aoe of one type or another. However, the targeted spells he does happen to use will require him to be within 5ft. of the offending target.

Because these guys spells are going to be active when the PC's encounter them, should I increase the CR for the encounter?

Take a look, and tell me what you think.
Updated Character

Shadow Lodge

The term is "archetype" with an e, not arch-type or archtype. :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Avatar-1 wrote:
The term is "archetype" with an e, not arch-type or archtype. :)

not quite the advice i was looking for. But my mom told me I wont take over the world if i dont know how to spell.

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