Can you grab something twice in a round? What kind of action is it to release a grab?
Consider an eidolon with 2 claws, grab and rake. If both claws grab, how many rakes?
Note that the rake evolution differs explicitly from the universal monster ability.
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Can you grab something twice in a round?
This question has multiple answers. When you "grab" something, you both gain the grappled condition (generally). After you've grappled something, you can't grapple it again, so in that sense, no, you cannot grab something more than once in a round, assuming your first grab attempt succeeded. If your first attempt failed, you may keep trying with as many attacks as you have with grab. More to follow...
What kind of action is it to release a grab?
It is a free action to release a grab, assuming it's your turn, and you're in control of the grapple. So, let's say you have two attacks with grab, and your first one succeeded at grappling your opponent. After you've finished everything involved with that first grapple check, including any constrict damage or other special abilities (like rake, in this example), then you can free action "let go", and proceed with your next attack/grab attempt (and possible subsequent constrict/rakes).
If you have 6 attacks, all with grab, you could in theory "let go" between each of them.
Consider an eidolon with 2 claws, grab and rake. If both claws grab, how many rakes?
4. Though you'd have to release the grapple between your first claw/grab and your second claw/grab.
Note that these rakes count towards your total number of attacks per round, and they can quickly add up.
Except, Eidolon Rake is specifically called out as counting as one attack.
I don't know, this one seems a little over the top. I wonder what the design rationale was for deviating from the Universal Monster Ability to such an extent?
I'm interested in making my eidolon awesome, but I want to do it fair and square. What am I missing here?
Not PFS, and my GMs are frequently indulgent.
I'm self-policing here, and I'm surprised at just how good this ends up being.
But, so be it! I'll pick up wings and grab next level and save rake for lesser evolution surge.
Pounce and Death From Above. Bite, 2 claws, 1 claw from haste, 3 grabs, potentially 6 rakes. (Plus the rider's spirited charge, of course.)
How cheesy, on a scale of one to 10?
Rake only applies in 2 situations. 1 You START the turn with the grappled condition. 2 You have the pounce ability.
The cheese is with the grab ability and the constrict ability. Hit with attack, Grab and win grapple check, Constrict, drop victim as free action, repeat.
Rake only applies in 2 situations. 1 You START the turn with the grappled condition. 2 You have the pounce ability.As was pointed out in the OP, Eidolon Rakes work differently from the Universal Monster Ability "Rake".
Then it could be used like the Constrict cheese.
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Except, Eidolon Rake is specifically called out as counting as one attack.
Eidolon Rake is called out specifically as counting as one attack, for the purposed of calculating the eidolon's maximum attacks.
It has nothing to do with combat resolution.
This evolution counts as one natural attack toward the eidolon’s maximum.
Alright bonus round. There's no way that the rake attacks — despite being described as "claws" — are actually also claw attacks, right? Because then the above description becomes a disturbing chain of attacks that is quite inappropriate.
That is something I don't think I would ever foist on a GM, but is it technically possible?
I would say no, they are rake attacks described as claws, not proper claw attacks.
Rake only applies in 2 situations. 1 You START the turn with the grappled condition. 2 You have the pounce ability.
I say we take it as a given that all eidolons have pounce.
Oddly, the Eidolon Rake ability says nothing about pounce (fair, but surprising).
As far as I'm concerned, that means it doesn't actually trigger on a pounce. It would be overkill anyway, since you'll probably get 2-3 times if you have the grab evolution.
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Alright bonus round. There's no way that the rake attacks — despite being described as "claws" — are actually also claw attacks, right? Because then the above description becomes a disturbing chain of attacks that is quite inappropriate.
That is something I don't think I would ever foist on a GM, but is it technically possible?
I would say no, they are rake attacks described as claws, not proper claw attacks.
The Claws evolution can only be applied to legs once. For quadruped eidolons, the Rake evolution represents usable claws on the back legs. They're "claws" in flavor only though. Grab (Claws), Weapon Focus (Claws) and Improved Damage (Claws) doesn't do anything for Rakes.
The standard Rake ability does not mention usage of Rake while pouncing. That is contained in the rules for Pounce.
Right, but since the pounce evolution is silent on the issue, do we presume that it still doesn't work?
Or do people generally read evolutions as conferring the universal monster rules? I have to admit, until this rake thing, I thought they were the same thing.
Artanthos, do you have a citation that leads you to that interpretation or is it just a judgement call?