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Having a hard time deciding what two feats to take for my next level (level 8) I'm retraining a feat I don't use much, and getting a bonus one at 8.
Two weapon fighting swashbuckler crit fishing build.
Feats I have already took the two weapon fighting ones, enforcer, and quickdraw and combat stamina.
Dex based.
I'm mostly trying to concentrate on mobility and doing the whirling dervish archetype for swashbuckler: move and hit many enemies, possibly making them all shaken or worse in the process.
So I have 2 feats to think of taking, possibly a third of I want training weapon enhancement on one of my swords.
Any ideas on what to take?
I want to avoid just damage or to hit bonuses, even ac or save buffs I kinda want to avoid. I want more options rather than stat buffs.
Like blind fight + blinded blade style.
Or butterflysting to share crits. Stuff like that.
So what two feat combinations (possibly 3) would be super neat to take? Maybe even 4 if it's worth waiting to level 9 to get the big 4th ability.
Bonus points if they have really neat and useful combat stamina options.
They do have to be combat feats sadly cus bonus combat feats.
Well there is combat expertise and butterfly sting that you mentioned. If you have anyone with a great crit weapon in the group that is always welcome.
You could take improved unarmed strike and a style feat if one suits your fancy. Many of them like crane style or snake style or whatever work with regular weapons as well as unarmed strike.
Combat expertise+combat maneuver of choice is always an option.
The panache feats are always an option. Armor trick+combat expertise, improved trip, etc provide various options as well.
I am curious about the two weapon fighting choice. Is there an option I am unaware of that allows precise strike to work with two weapons?
Dodge + mobility + spring attack+ canny tumble + confounding tumble deed
Dodge: give u a +1 to ac
Mobility: +4 ac against attack of opportunities
Spring attack: can attack during your movement without provoke an attack of opportunities
Canny tumble: when you move through an opponent area without provoking an attack of opportunity you gain +2 to attack vs that opponent
Confounding tumble deed; when you don't give an attack of opportunity you can spend 1 panache to rent the dex bonus in the ac do 1 round
Zepheri wrote: Dodge + mobility + spring attack+ canny tumble + confounding tumble deed
Dodge: give u a +1 to ac
Mobility: +4 ac against attack of opportunities
Spring attack: can attack during your movement without provoke an attack of opportunities
Canny tumble: when you move through an opponent area without provoking an attack of opportunity you gain +2 to attack vs that opponent
Confounding tumble deed; when you don't give an attack of opportunity you can spend 1 panache to rent the dex bonus in the ac do 1 round
Mobility and the Tumble stuff is the smart thing probably. But can't do spring attack cus whirlwind dervish deed covers doing that but better essentially. (Full attack with movement, full bab on all attacks)
You didn't mention it in your feat list, but did you take Weapon Finesse as a feat? Whirling Dervish's Dervish Finesse doesn't work if you wield a weapon in your other hand (two weapon fighting) and the Dervish Dance class feature doesn't actually give you Dervish Dance, only for Prereqs for feats and explicitly only works with Swashbuckler Finesse.
Whirling Dervish wrote: Dervish Finesse (Ex): A whirling dervish can treat a scimitar as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for the purposes of the swashbuckler’s finesse and all feats and class abilities that refer to such a weapon. She must not be carrying a weapon or shield in her off hand to gain this benefit. This ability alters swashbuckler finesse.
Dervish Dance (Ex): At 4th level, a whirling dervish can use her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength modifier on melee damage rolls when using her swashbuckler finesse. She counts as having the Dervish Dance feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.
Swashbuckler Finesse (Ex): At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.
Notably, the regular Swashbuckler Finesse doesn't have the language, so as long as you use normally piercing weapon (ie non-scimitar like a rapier) you can avoid the need to take Weapon Finesse again. However, Precise Strike deed will still not work since you can't make attacks with the offhand to use that.
Firebug wrote: You didn't mention it in your feat list, but did you take Weapon Finesse as a feat? Whirling Dervish's Dervish Finesse doesn't work if you wield a weapon in your other hand (two weapon fighting) and the Dervish Dance class feature doesn't actually give you Dervish Dance, only for Prereqs for feats and explicitly only works with Swashbuckler Finesse.
Whirling Dervish wrote: Dervish Finesse (Ex): A whirling dervish can treat a scimitar as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for the purposes of the swashbuckler’s finesse and all feats and class abilities that refer to such a weapon. She must not be carrying a weapon or shield in her off hand to gain this benefit. This ability alters swashbuckler finesse.
Dervish Dance (Ex): At 4th level, a whirling dervish can use her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength modifier on melee damage rolls when using her swashbuckler finesse. She counts as having the Dervish Dance feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.
Swashbuckler Finesse (Ex): At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.
Notably, the regular Swashbuckler Finesse doesn't have the language, so as long as you use normally piercing weapon (ie non-scimitar like a rapier) you can avoid the need to take Weapon Finesse again. However, Precise Strike deed will still not work since you can't make attacks with the offhand to use that.
I'm using waveblades (cracked white ion stone in a wayfinder to get the proficiency)
Which is P or S weapon.
Swashbuckler finesse base still gives me piercing weapon finesse. The other ability that gives me Dex to damage specifies I get that while using my swashbuckler finesse. It did not specify specifically my whirling dervish finesse, so it still works.
There's an argument to be had over whether slashing or Piercing weapons count as both for abilities and feats or only one during whichever use you are using for that attack, but that's a discussion on another thread x3 for the purposes here I effectively have weapon finesse, Dex to damage, and can use slashing attacks from a P or S weapon to proc enforcer and still get Dex to hit and damage.
I know I don't get use of precise strike while two weapon fighting , and that's fine. I'm crit fishing and looking for more attacks most of the time. (If I need stronger single hits I can switch to just using one weapon for the turn)
Just bumping this up as my next session is next week. Still stuck on a choice. Again, seeking more options rather than just higher numbers.
Disarming Strike(+Combat Expertise, +Improved Disarm) at 9 if you are crit fishing, basically a free disarm attempt when you crit. Throw in Follow-up Strike(+Improved Unarmed Strike, get the Ioun Stone) for fun but you probably won't have a good unarmed strike.
Repositioning Strike(+Combat Expertise, +Improved Trip) is very similar but a free reposition.
Flanking Foil to up your AC in an interesting way.
Redirect Attack(+Dodge) sounds fun since you will be in the thick of things.
Have you considered multi-classing? Looks like you'd gain almost nothing from staying in class, as you you don't get the skaling bonus from Precise Strike, and the 11th and 15th level deeds aren't that great. What remains are bonus feats and small numerical bonuses, you could get that and more from other classes.
Derklord wrote: Have you considered multi-classing? Looks like you'd gain almost nothing from staying in class, as you you don't get the skaling bonus from Precise Strike, and the 11th and 15th level deeds aren't that great. What remains are bonus feats and small numerical bonuses, you could get that and more from other classes. Any classes you'd suggest for 2-3 levels? (Game is ending at level 10 sadly)
Hard to think what would be a good fit
My favorite Feats for crit fishing are Teamwork Feats:
Outflank and Seize the Moment (kind of the same Feat: grants your allies Attacks of Opportunity when you score a Crit)
Paired Opportunist (When anyone gets a Feat, everyone does).
And of course Combat Reflexes.
Do you have Improved Crit and Crit Focus yet?
Roco wrote: Derklord wrote: Have you considered multi-classing? Looks like you'd gain almost nothing from staying in class, as you you don't get the skaling bonus from Precise Strike, and the 11th and 15th level deeds aren't that great. What remains are bonus feats and small numerical bonuses, you could get that and more from other classes. Any classes you'd suggest for 2-3 levels? (Game is ending at level 10 sadly)
Hard to think what would be a good fit For Teamwork Feats?
1 level in Cavalier
3 levels in Inquisitor
3 leveld in Paladin with the Holy Tactician Archetype
Roco wrote: I'm mostly trying to concentrate on mobility and doing the whirling dervish archetype for swashbuckler: move and hit many enemies Roco wrote: I'm using waveblades (cracked white ion stone in a wayfinder to get the proficiency) Roco wrote: Mobility and the Tumble stuff is the smart thing probably. I do a favorite thing for this.
Panther Style Feats give you bonus unarmed attacks.
Ascetic Style lets you use Panther Style Feats (any Unarmed Strike Feat) with your Wave Blades.
But now I'm talking about a lot of Feats:
Exotic Weapon Waveblade
Weapon Focus Waveblade
Asceitic Style Waveblade
Panther Style
Panther Claw
Maybe Panther Parry.
But you were talking about retraining.
I would recommend Dodge and Mobility, since Panther Style depends on drawing out Attacks of Opportunity by Moving out of Threatened Squares. But you are already talking about taking Mobility.
The other big issue I see with this is that I'm not really talking about 2 weapon fighting.
How married are you to your waveblades? I was recently clued in to the Estoc: 1 handed, threat range of 18-20, 2d4 Damage, but it is an Exotic Weapon. And if you wanted to use my Panther Style thingy, it would be a problem to use it with an Estoc: you can only take Ascetic Style with weapons in the Monk Weapon Group, and Estoc isn't in the the Monk Weapon group. You'd have to take Ascetic style for some other weapon, then take the Feat Martial Versatility for Ascetic Style, which lets you apply 1 single-weapon-only Feat to all the weapons in the same weapon goup. So, you'd take Weapon Focus and Ascetic Style for the 9 Ring Broadsword, then Martial Versatility for Ascetic Style, then you'd get to use A.Style for all Heavy Blades, and Estoc is a Heavy Blade. 9 Ring Broadsword is in both Monk and Heavy Blade weapon groups.
Roco wrote: Derklord wrote: Have you considered multi-classing? Looks like you'd gain almost nothing from staying in class, as you you don't get the skaling bonus from Precise Strike, and the 11th and 15th level deeds aren't that great. What remains are bonus feats and small numerical bonuses, you could get that and more from other classes. Any classes you'd suggest for 2-3 levels? (Game is ending at level 10 sadly)
Hard to think what would be a good fit If you can retrain feats, I would recommend 2 levels of Brawler, to give you profiency in Waveblades and Two-weapon fighting feat while only using one weapon!! + an extra combat feat and Martial Flexibility which is also fun.
Since you're already retraining, why not retrain in a level of a dex-rage class (or two, for Uncanny Dodge, since it's flat out criminal that swashbucklers don't get that until 11th) and take Extra Rage as a retrain feat? Since you're dex-based, the extra +2 to attack-bonus, damage (since I'm assuming an Agile weapon), and AC will all help out quite nicely.
*Khan* wrote: If you can retrain feats, I would recommend 2 levels of Brawler, to give you profiency in Waveblades and Two-weapon fighting feat while only using one weapon!! + an extra combat feat and Martial Flexibility which is also fun. I second the suggestion of BRawler - "I want more options rather than stat buffs." doesn't get much better than Martial Flexibility (on a martial, obviously), and using a single weapon with Brawlers Flurry also enables Precise Strike, so the numbers are there, too.
A level in a dex-rage class is never bad for a Swashbuckler, although that is "merely" a numeric increase.
Derklord wrote: *Khan* wrote: If you can retrain feats, I would recommend 2 levels of Brawler, to give you profiency in Waveblades and Two-weapon fighting feat while only using one weapon!! + an extra combat feat and Martial Flexibility which is also fun. I second the suggestion of BRawler - "I want more options rather than stat buffs." doesn't get much better than Martial Flexibility (on a martial, obviously), and using a single weapon with Brawlers Flurry also enables Precise Strike, so the numbers are there, too.
A level in a dex-rage class is never bad for a Swashbuckler, although that is "merely" a numeric increase. hmmm... would I be able to get improved-two weapon fighting and still use it with the flurry? Since currently I get 4 attacks with two weapons and I'd be going down to 3 with a flurry (This matters as less attacks will dampen the overall power and distance of my Whirling Dervish ability. With haste, being able to hit up to 5 things withen 60 feet of each other )
If Brawler's Flurry counts to get to take improved two-weapon fighting (and only can use it while I flurry) then it might be something I will do.
I was under the impression that swashbuckler needs its offhand free in order to use a lot of its stuff, unless you are an archtype of some sorts?
Evilserran wrote: I was under the impression that swashbuckler needs its offhand free in order to use a lot of its stuff, unless you are an archtype of some sorts? Those things being Precise Strike and Dervish Finesse from the archetype, Whirling Dervish.
OP said he didn't care about Precise Strike, since they are focused on hitting everything once and demoralizing it.
Dervish Finesse allows you to finesse a scimitar as long as your offhand is free... but the OP isn't using a scimitar so doesn't care.
Nothing else requires you to have a hand free.
You can Opportune Parry and Riposte with a 2h reach weapon if you wanted.
Roco wrote: hmmm... would I be able to get improved-two weapon fighting and still use it with the flurry? Brawler's Flurry is one of the worst written abilities in all of Pathfidner, but as far as I can tell, yes - it uses the regular TWF rules, except as modified by the ability. The later levels only grant the Improved/Greater TWF feats, anyway, if you have them from selecting them they should behave exactly the same.
Basically, what Brawler's Flrury does, is a) grant the feats for free, b) allows you to use your main-hand weapon as an off-hand weapon as well, and c) hard-sets the strength bonus to damage rolls to 1x.
Roco wrote: If Brawler's Flurry counts to get to take improved two-weapon fighting (and only can use it while I flurry) then it might be something I will do. It was rules during the ACG playtest that "A brawler can use the feats granted by brawler's flurry to qualify for other feats, but can only use those other feats when using brawler's flurry".
Derklord wrote: Roco wrote: hmmm... would I be able to get improved-two weapon fighting and still use it with the flurry? Brawler's Flurry is one of the worst written abilities in all of Pathfidner, but as far as I can tell, yes - it uses the regular TWF rules, except as modified by the ability. The later levels only grant the Improved/Greater TWF feats, anyway, if you have them from selecting them they should behave exactly the same.
Basically, what Brawler's Flrury does, is a) grant the feats for free, b) allows you to use your main-hand weapon as an off-hand weapon as well, and c) hard-sets the strength bonus to damage rolls to 1x.
Roco wrote: If Brawler's Flurry counts to get to take improved two-weapon fighting (and only can use it while I flurry) then it might be something I will do. It was rules during the ACG playtest that "A brawler can use the feats granted by brawler's flurry to qualify for other feats, but can only use those other feats when using brawler's flurry". Hmm, okay then! last question, would I still get 4 attacks when I whirling dervish? (the deed that lets me move and attack different targets as I move) it says it's based on my full attack. Flurry is a full attack actions so I'm inclined to think yes?
actually, another question:
I just found Varisian Free-Style Fighter
it says that it can treat fighter levels as brawler levels for martial flexing. Does that extend to swashbucklers having their level count as fighter levels?
Cus if that's the case, that sounds like the route I might take. Mainly because while having the extra damage from precise strike would be nice, having the fully upgraded level 10 martial flex ability seems SUPER good for my want of versatility and options~
Went ahead and made a thread about these two questions in the Rules Questions Forum:
Questions about Brawlers
Thinking about going with the Outslug style line of feats. Thoughts? That extra 5' in a 5' step sounds juicy, as does the no negative lunge. The +2 attack and AC is just icing.
(Also pretty set on Brawler me thinks)
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