Here's what I have so far:
level 5 half-orc Invulnerable Rager barbarian 4/Unarmed fighter 1
Str 20
Dex 15
Con 18
Int 13
Wis 14
Cha 13
I rolled the stats. Yes, they are pretty ridiculous, and if I hadn't already decided that I wanted to play a barbarian, I would have put them toward something more MAD.
Feats: Power Attack, Endurance (racial trait), Die Hard, Improved Unarmed Strike, Crane Style, Stalwart
Rage Powers: Reckless Abandon, Lesser Celestial Totem
I know Beast Totem is amazing, but I wasn't too keen on the claws, and at the time we had 1 healing focused cleric, a defendery/healing paladin, a witch with the healing hex, and a bard, all of whom were happy to heal me mid-combat, and with the beating I had been taking for the first few levels, it seemed worthwhile to get that extra healing.
The goals for this character are to be tough as hell, nigh-unkillable, and to hit things hard.
I'd been considering the following:
7. Superstitious rage power, Ferocious Tenacity (I've got 20 rounds of rage currently).
9. Increased Damage Reduction rage power, not sure what feat (maybe Combat Reflexes, or Extra Rage Power for more DR, or something else entirely)
11. Flesh Wound rage power, Improved Stalwart
13. Come and Get Me rage power, Dazing Assault
15. Witch Hunter rage power, Combat Reflexes
17. Spell Sunder
Other feats I'm considering: Raging Vitality (doesn't seem a necessity with Die Hard and potentially Ferocious Tenacity), Raging Brutality, Cleave, Cornugon Smash, Extra Rage Power.
Other powers I'm considering: more Increased DR, Auspicious Mark, Celestial Totem (having Invisibility Purge for free is nice, but only if the light isn't up all the time), Clear Mind, Eater of Magic, Guarded Life, Knockback, Knockdown, Renewed Vigor (convinced GM a while back to allow this to work as a swift action), Unexpected Strike.
That said, I'm open to suggestions for powers and feats going forward. I'm a little worried about taking Superstitious since, up to this point, I've been receiving a fair amount of in-combat healing and buffing (we also had a sorcerer in the party), although after the long break we've had (several months), I'm not sure if everyone we had before will be returning, so it may not matter.
I know that Ferocious Tenacity is kind of iffy, but in one of the last fights he had, he nearly died twice to a dragon, despite having DR 6/-- AND the paladin's smite evil ability reducing incoming damage by 1/2. Plus, I like the idea of just not dying.
Fighting below 0 HP isn't too much of a hardship otherwise, since I have an item that allows me to ignore the Staggered condition for 5 rounds/day.
Any suggestions, particularly input on what to do regarding feats and rage powers for the next few levels, would be appreciated. Thanks.
Oh, also currently wielding a greatsword, but open to suggestions on other weapons, and whether I should be purchasing a Keen weapon first, or a Furious?
is this an existing character, or are you building him at a starting level higher than 1? I only ask because Unarmed Fighter archetype and Crane Style won't give you any benefit while wielding a greatsword.
An existing character.
Why do you say that? Crane Style has no language requiring a free hand; you're probably thinking of Crane Wing/Riposte. I've got Crane Style for the interaction between an improved fight defensively mechanic and Stalwart, which translates to -2 attack, +4 DR/--. It has SOME in-character justification in that I trained a little with the monk that had been in the party, and saw the effectiveness of some of his techniques.
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I disagree with the idea of taking a level of Fighter AND spending two feats to get 4DR-- and especially at the cost of -2 to attack.
As a matter of fact, I'm not sure that I would trade 2 points of attack for 4 DR as a barbarian even if it didn't cost 2 feats and a fighter level: It's not a good trade for a damage dealer. Maybe situationaly, but not on a regular basis.
As a Barbarian, you should be looking for ways to improve your damage to kill your opponents faster. THAT is how Barbarians take less damage: they kill stuff faster.
Bonuses to attack. Bonuses to damage. Extra attacks per round. These are the things that make a Barbarian do their job better.
If you want to improve your DR, go Invulnerable Rager and get extra DR without reducing your offensive output. Stack a couple of Increased DR rage powers if you feel you must, but don't blow two feats and your precious attack bonuses to get DR.
Oh, also currently wielding a greatsword, but open to suggestions on other weapons, and whether I should be purchasing a Keen weapon first, or a Furious?
Can I sell you on a Nodachi? its like a greatsword, but cooler because its a katana, and katanas are just cooler. Did I mention its a giant katana?
As a Barbarian, you should be looking for ways to improve your damage to kill your opponents faster. THAT is how Barbarians take less damage: they kill stuff faster.
Actually stalwart pays back pretty well for barbarian, especially with invulnerable rager and flesh wounds. Guarded life can also add to that if I remember right.
Actually stalwart pays back pretty well for barbarian, especially with invulnerable rager and flesh wounds. Guarded life can also add to that if I remember right.Oh, also currently wielding a greatsword, but open to suggestions on other weapons, and whether I should be purchasing a Keen weapon first, or a Furious?Can I sell you on a Nodachi? its like a greatsword, but cooler because its a katana, and katanas are just cooler. Did I mention its a giant katana?
Ooh! I thought the nodachi was exotic, but I see that it is in fact NOT. Sent an e-mail to my GM to see if I can swap my greatsword for that. Kind of iffy whether it gets a pass or not, but thanks for the suggestion.
I disagree with the idea of taking a level of Fighter AND spending two feats to get 4DR-- and especially at the cost of -2 to attack.
As a matter of fact, I'm not sure that I would trade 2 points of attack for 4 DR as a barbarian even if it didn't cost 2 feats and a fighter level: It's not a good trade for a damage dealer. Maybe situationaly, but not on a regular basis.
As a Barbarian, you should be looking for ways to improve your damage to kill your opponents faster. THAT is how Barbarians take less damage: they kill stuff faster.
Bonuses to attack. Bonuses to damage. Extra attacks per round. These are the things that make a Barbarian do their job better.
If you want to improve your DR, go Invulnerable Rager and get extra DR without reducing your offensive output. Stack a couple of Increased DR rage powers if you feel you must, but don't blow two feats and your precious attack bonuses to get DR.
Thanks for replying. A few things...
1. That part of this character is already established: he's level 5 already, about halfway to level 6, so the Stalwart stuff isn't changing.
2. At level 5, I have DR 6/-- at the costs you mention, which is significant.
3. Honestly, there aren't that many ways to improve my damage beyond Power Attack and Reckless Abandon that are worth taking. I already land most of my attacks, even with the -2 attack penalty, and I'm killing most enemies in one or two hits (and for those that take 2, I'd need a rather large increase in base damage to push them into the 1 hit kill pile).
With Improved Stalwart down the line, I could have a DR 16/-- at level 11. Without Stalwart, I'd be looking at DR 8/--. That's a big deal, especially on a character with a terrible AC.
I also have to ask: did you read much of my original post? I mention that I have Invulnerable Rager, am considering at least one Improved DR, and possibly 2 or 3, and I think I mentioned that one of my goals for the character is to be tough as hell. Yes, I can bump DPR a bit, but I am definitely the party tank most of the time, deal more damage than anyone else, and can soak more as well. There have been fights where, if I had swapped the DR for an extra +4 damage, say, I would have been dead.
My only damage concerns are that I have nothing that allows me to deal with multiple enemies at a time (like Cleave), which has hurt a bit when fighting groups of weaker foes, and that I won't get Pounce down the road...if we ever get there. Other than that, I'm fairly happy with him right now. It's fun to play Marburg from the Ebola clan--he revels in combat, in testing his mettle, and in laying waste to his opponents. He's perfectly happy to take a hit from someone, then laugh in their face as they realize that their weapon barely scratched him before swinging away with his own attack to show 'em how it's done.
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Hey if you are having fun and the character hasn't died yet, I'd say you are doing it right. If your DM will work with your preferences on magic weapon upgrades, don't overlook Weapon Focus: +1 to attack will help those iterative attacks hit starting at level 6. Since you have already gone into combat styles, I'd suggest looking at Dragon Ferocity for those times when you need to seriously boost your damage output.
I think you really want to cleave, and finishing cleave to stop getting bogged down by mooks, or go for the fiend totem rage powers - you may not care if mooks pound on you if they're taking damage. When one falls, you take their spot, and the extra gore attack will help that along (even at -5).
I have a very different build for my half-orc barbarian, but one of the feats I use the most is Furious Focus. If you're carrying a great sword, seems a good fit for your character.
Hey if you are having fun and the character hasn't died yet, I'd say you are doing it right. If your DM will work with your preferences on magic weapon upgrades, don't overlook Weapon Focus: +1 to attack will help those iterative attacks hit starting at level 6. Since you have already gone into combat styles, I'd suggest looking at Dragon Ferocity for those times when you need to seriously boost your damage output.
Dragon Style is an interesting consideration--I wouldn't be making Unarmed Strikes very often, I think (although if I swap to a reach weapon, I could use that for threatening and attacking adjacent squares), and the charging and saves benefits from Dragon Style are excellent for someone who wants to get to the front lines ASAP.
I don't think I'd spend a feat on Weapon Focus on a character so feat-starved as a barbarian. When I get to my iterative attacks, if I find that I'm missing too frequently, then it might be a consideration.
I think you really want to cleave, and finishing cleave to stop getting bogged down by mooks, or go for the fiend totem rage powers - you may not care if mooks pound on you if they're taking damage. When one falls, you take their spot, and the extra gore attack will help that along (even at -5).
Cleave has definitely been something that I've been considering. It's just a matter of what I'd like to give up for it/when I take it.
In my experience the biggest downside of the Barbarian is their lack of multi-targeting. The best way I've found to get around that is using a reach weapon with Combat Reflexes and the Come and Get Me rage power (at lvl12).
Your main weapon is mostly irrelevant anyway. You could seriously kill most things with a big stick. I posit that Reach + Combat Reflexes will allow you to kill more enemies faster than a higher damage weapon without reach. Just make sure you also wear a spiked gauntlet for those situations where 5 ft step away is not am option.
I'd even bump Dex at level 8 if I were you.
As for Superstition being worth it: if your party is doing a lot of in-combat healing, consider that their actions could instead focus on killing the enemy. This is another form of proactive healing. Superstition is amazing at mid levels. I recommend it to every barbarian ever.
Well CAGM isn't happening for quite a while, but it's on my list of things I'm intending to pick up, as is Combat Reflexes, although when I pick up the feat is up in the air (and open to suggestion).
What reach weapon would you suggest swapping to? I don't need a spiked gauntlet, since I have Improved Unarmed Strike, and can make a headbutt or kick adjacent enemies, and without having to release the grip on my reach weapon, though the gauntlet deals better base damage.
My intent was to bump Dex at the level closest to my acquiring Combat Reflexes--if I decide to pick the feat up at 7 or 9, I'd use level 8 to increase Dex; if I grab the feat at 11 or 13, I'd bump Dex at 12.
For some of the party, contributing more proactively is something that they do--the witch uses Hexes a lot, and a little CC/nuking magic, but he also recognizes that the most damage he can do at this stage of the game is accomplished by helping me do my job, so if I'm in danger of going down, and he's nearby, he'll heal me, and he recognizes Enlarge Person as being his best damage spell right now. As for some of the others, well, it's a matter of mentality for them--one of the paladins really just wants to be a speed bump, and he likes playing supporting roles, and he, along with the cleric and a couple of the others are MMO veterans, so they see their roles through that lens, where cleric=healer and a healer's job is to keep the main DPS/tank up (that's me). I'd prefer to see more CC tossed around, but I don't know how much I'll be seeing. Plus, the spell lists for these classes aren't very effective at taking an enemy out of the fight at this level--most are single target save-or-suck spells, or rather weak, usually single target damage spells, which rarely end up meaning more than a swing of my sword. I don't know if the GM has very good luck when rolling saves, or fudges his rolls (I think it's some of both), but players have found that save-based spells with zero effect on a pass are often a waste.
I have a very different build for my half-orc barbarian, but one of the feats I use the most is Furious Focus. If you're carrying a great sword, seems a good fit for your character.
I appreciate the suggestion, but...eh. Like I said earlier, I'm not missing all that frequently, and I have Reckless abandon essentially doing the same thing as Furious Focus, except that it will apply to iterative attacks when I get them.
If I were concerned about hitting, I'd sooner take Weapon Focus on this character, since Furious Focus won't help with later attacks, and I'm not too thrilled with Weapon Focus, either.
Which weapon enchantment do you think I should go for first? Keen (on a bardiche), or Furious? Or something else?
Which weapon enchantment do you think I should go for first? Keen (on a bardiche), or Furious? Or something else?
Imo, Furious comes first so you can reach a higher effective enhancement bonus, then courageous after you've picked up +2(you'll probably have a few more morale bonuses from rage powers or heroism, and a +2 to them while raging is pretty awesome), then keen after that or continue enhancement.
Thanks. I'll probably do that then.
Another query: do enhancements that raise the +X on a weapon also grant the DR-bypassing properties associated with higher enhancement bonuses?
Which weapon enchantment do you think I should go for first? Keen (on a bardiche), or Furious? Or something else?Imo, Furious comes first so you can reach a higher effective enhancement bonus, then courageous after you've picked up +2(you'll probably have a few more morale bonuses from rage powers or heroism, and a +2 to them while raging is pretty awesome), then keen after that or continue enhancement.
Well, apparently everyone else had misplaced their character sheet in the intervening 9 months or so since we last played and either remade their characters completely, or tried to recreate them (invariably including some alterations), so I made a couple of small changes, swapping Lesser Celestial Totem for Knockback, figuring that the party had lost much of its healing support, and knowing that it could be useful to use my unarmed strike to push someone into the range of the bardiche I had swapped my greatsword for, as per your suggestion. I had enough coin to get a +1 Furious version.
I'd considered superstitious, but my friend pointed out that his character (a witch) and mine were fairly close, and that a lot of that bond had formed via his supporting me in combat with some buffs and healing--notably, Enlarge Person is tough to work around with Superstition unless I start every fight holding off on rage, which went against the grain of the character, as did developing an animus to magic at this stage of things.
Knockback worked WONDERFULLY! Among other things, we ended up fighting a dragon who kept getting adjacent to me, to try and deny me my reach (and better weapon), so my first attack was to try and bull rush-hit the dragon away and then either attack, or 5 foot step back and attack, with my good weapon. This worked a few times, including once where I managed to kick the dragon back into flanking position for the rogue with TWF so she could get all of her attacks on him.
I also was extra glad I hadn't gone with Superstitious, since one of the party members changed his character to a wizard with a fair amount of support (some battlefield control, but also Enlarge and Haste). I'm going to talk to him about possibly picking up something like Baleful/Benign Transposition or Greater Slide or some such as well.
Now, I have to amend my future plan for this guy...thinking I'll take Combat Reflexes at level 7, but not sure which rage power to pick up then--leaning toward a choice between Guarded Stance, Strength Surge (going to try to get an item to enable rage cycling), Surprise Accuracy (ditto), or possibly picking up Lesser Celestial Totem again.
On the decision between Strength Surge and Surprise Accuracy, the latter can be used for either an attack that I want to hit (such as an iterative) or on CMB for an important Knockback, but I have to use it before seeing the die roll, so it may be irrelevant, and isn't a very large bonus, while Surge provides a big bonus to Knockback (or whatever other CMB/CMD comes up), and can be used after rolling (I think), but is more limited in scope.
Guarded Stance would be to slightly offset the penalties I take to AC (-2 rage, -2 reckless abandon right now, -2 charging sometimes, -2 large sized), but it may not be enough to be worth it. Right now my AC is 21 before raging at level 6, so not great, but I'd like to stop getting hit by mooks and iterative attacks ALL the time. Gobs of HP and some pretty good DR help (A LOT), but getting missed would be nice, too. Will talk to wizard about picking up Blur possibly.
So here's what I'm considering going forward:
7. Strength Surge, Combat Reflexes
9. Improved Damage Reduction, Extra Rage Power: Clear Mind (or IDR again)
11. ???, Improved Stalwart
13. Come and Get Me, Dazing Assault
14. Unbreakable Fighter lvl 2 = +1 saves vs. mind-affecting; +1 feat (Cornugon Smash)
How does that look given the alterations in my previous post?
What rage power would you recommend for level 11 (barbarian 10)? Another Improved DR?
Would you change anything?
DR would be:
7. 7/--, +3 vs. nonlethal
9. 9/-- (or 10/--), +4 vs. nonlethal
11. 14/-- (or 15/--, or 16/--), +5 vs. nonlethal