[Dreamscarred Press] Announcing Psionics Augmented: Wilder

[Barachiel Shina]

Frerezar wrote:

Is it just me or does DSP support PrC more than Paizo does? This is not a complain by the way, just an observation.

They do, and I am glad. My friends and I are rather annoyed at Paizo's lack of generic prestige classes (as in PrC that are NOT campaign specific).

The only core PrC they have is the RPG book and the Advanced Player's Guide. Disappointing really.

But that's off topic.

[Sandbox]

Prince of Knives wrote:

Justin, I'll address your feedback tomorrow when I'm (hopefully) feeling a bit better.

Sandbox wrote:

are these named powers off of DSP Iconics?

Sorta. Two of them are not attached to any iconic whatsoever. Kyria is the Volcanic Mind iconic - you'll see her in the artwork, later on.

i would resist using names for iconics that don't exist

[Prince of Knives]

Sandbox wrote:

Prince of Knives wrote:

Justin, I'll address your feedback tomorrow when I'm (hopefully) feeling a bit better.

Sandbox wrote:

are these named powers off of DSP Iconics?

Sorta. Two of them are not attached to any iconic whatsoever. Kyria is the Volcanic Mind iconic - you'll see her in the artwork, later on.

i would resist using names for iconics that don't exist

Ah, but they do exist [/mysterious smile]

I'll explain the reference after they get published if no one twiggers it beforehand.

[Justin Sane]

Prince of Knives wrote:

Justin, I'll address your feedback tomorrow when I'm (hopefully) feeling a bit better.

I seriously hope you're feeling better. You're just too involved in too many projects I like :)

[Prince of Knives]

Justin Sane wrote:

Prince of Knives wrote:

Justin, I'll address your feedback tomorrow when I'm (hopefully) feeling a bit better.

I seriously hope you're feeling better. You're just too involved in too many projects I like :)

Not sure if compliment >.>

In any event I am in fact feeling better but 'm neck-deep helping out with something else SUPER URGENT. I will address your feedback.

In the meantime feats/PrCs/Archetypes are still things that I need to edit; I've got notes, just no free time lately.

[Justin Sane]

It's cool, some things have priority over answering some random guy on the internet :)

[Prince of Knives]

I ARISE ONCE MORE IN THE GLORY OF DARKNESS AND THE PASSION OF MADNESS

Or, possibly, I'm back after the other project(s) that sidelined me. Let's go with that one.

Justin Sane wrote:

Okay, after reading more carefully (1st readthrough was mostly to catch glaring errors like the above), gut impressions:

Biokinetic Endurance: Same/higher level than Body Purification and Cleanse Body, but is meant to be used pro-actively? The Surge Augment makes it worthwhile for Wilders, but I'd stick to Cleanse Body for Psions (or a wand of Lesser Restoration and UMD). For Psychic Warriors, seems a bit too situational.

As you can see in the thread, there's been some serious contention about this power. The use of DR vs. ability damage isn't really precedented, so...can I ask you to expand on your thoughts re: balance here?

Quote:

Melpomene’s Psionic Howl: AoE targeting Fortitude, can be party-friendly, debuffs casters. Has a slight edge over Energy Burst. Seems solid.

Yay!

Quote:

Sympathetic Drain: This one's odd. No-save guaranteed damage, with a solid debuff vs Will? Especially since the damage scales with HP, not the power points you invest in it. At level 10, a Psion can easily have what, 57 hp? So a maximum of 28 damage... Hrmph, not much damage, especially considering the backlash. Now, the Surge Augment is funky, too. The manifester has to make the saving throw? ... Why would you want to augment that, then? Especially since Wilders have a d8 hit die, they could push a damage spike of 50 hp at level 10. With no save and no attack roll. Dunno, this one just seems... off. [Edit: How does this power interact with temp hp? I seriously hope the answer is "not at all" because if not, this plus Vigor... ouch]

The surge augment lets you attempt a save to literally double the damage dealt. Admittedly that sort of check isn't normally done in PF but I wanted to gate it with something beyond just blowing your Surge on it. Interaction with temp HP removed, definitely hearing ideas on improving or replacing the surge augment.

Quote:

Kyria’s Crystalline Aura: Offensive mode seems to have more defensive use than Defensive mode. Reflex Save or be too far from me to attack? Probably two saves if you don't have reach, more if I augment it? Also, it seems weird that it can push away a dragon more easily than a Rogue. I'd give the manifester a free bullrush (with a modified CMB, like Hydraulic Push) every turn against targets in range [EDIT: or maybe damage is automatic, bullrush is a move action for the manifester?]. It would also mean you couldn't chase someone to death with this power. Still deciding if that would be a good or bad thing :)

I'm gonna alter the offense mode to make it, well, more offensive. Here's the current thoughtline:

Quote:

Kyria’s Crystalline Aura

Discipline: Metacreativity
Level: Psion/wilder 4, psychic warrior 4
Display: Material
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level
Power Points: 7
You create a cloud of whirling, razor-sharp crystals around yourself. When you manifest this power, choose defensive or offensive (you may alter this choice as a swift action). While this power is in defensive mode, the shards lock together to protect you from attacks; you gain a +3 shield bonus to AC, as well as a +3 competence bonus to Reflex saves. While this power is in offensive mode, creatures within a 10 ft. radius of you suffer 5d6 slashing damage at the beginning of each round (and whenever they voluntarily enter a space within 10 ft. of you) and must succeed at a Reflex save or suffer 2d6 bleed damage.

Augment: You may augment this power in one or both of the following ways:
1. For every 2 additional power points you spend, the bonuses granted by the defensive mode increase by 1, and the damage of the offensive mode increases by 1 die (d6).
2. For every 2 additional power points you spend, the area of the offensive mode increases by 5 ft.

Surge Augment: If you invoke your wild surge while manifesting this power, you may choose to manifest it in both defensive and offensive mode at the same time. If you do so, you may not switch its mode for this manifestation, and its duration is cut in half (rounded down).

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Mental Contagion: Seems awesome. Just some questions, why the "1 full round action" manifesting time? Why isn't the 1st augment more granular (ie, +2pp for +1 target)? And why does it need two targets to spread the love?

Full-round is a power control. There's a lot of mind-affecting abilities to spread around, and many of them are excessively nasty. Spreading a dominate, for instance, means that you've saved someone two spells and now have three mind slaves. First augment isn't more granular because I want to hard-gate getting additional targets. Requiring two targets has been fixed.

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Fracture Pattern: Oh, oh gods. This is awesome. A really weird take on a save-or-die xD

Yay! Balanced at third level power?

Quote:

Euterpe’s Prophetic Song: Bards wish they could have it this good. Sure, easily disrupted (especially since it doesn't buff concentration checks), but daaamn, +9 hit, damage, AC *and* saves (oh, and skills)? For the whole party? Daaamn. I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take this. It really, really needs an upper cap on the duration (1 min./lvl?)

That cap has been placed, but consider the power as it evolves for me. By the time it does all of that it's still a concentration-duration buff that's trying to be a 9th level power. So, as the augments evolve, my question is this: do you feel it's balanced as a 3rd level power (1st augment), 5th level power (2nd augment), 7th level power (3rd augment) and then finally a 9th level power (final augment)?

[Justin Sane]

I've been awake 42 hours straight now, so I'll try my best to be coherent.

Biokinetic Endurance wrote:

As you can see in the thread, there's been some serious contention about this power. The use of DR vs. ability damage isn't really precedented, so...can I ask you to expand on your thoughts re: balance here?

Well, it's a "magic psionic bullet" power. Really great when needed, but not something I'd spend a power known for (wands of Lesser Restoration are cheap). Has some limitations: low-ish duration, most useful for melee (most ability damage is caused in melee, right?) means a Psion won't get as much mileage out of this, so...

I'd say Death Ward is more powerful than this, so level 3 seems fine.

Melpomene’s Psionic Howl wrote:

Yay!

One thing strikes me as weird, why is the deafening mind-affecting? On a Psychokinetic power? Maybe it's the sleep deprivation, but... huh?

Sympathetic Drain wrote:

The surge augment lets you attempt a save to literally double the damage dealt. Admittedly that sort of check isn't normally done in PF but I wanted to gate it with something beyond just blowing your Surge on it. Interaction with temp HP removed, definitely hearing ideas on improving or replacing the surge augment.

So I manifest the power, and I (as in, not the target) have to make the save? Why would I ever augment the DC if I just want to deal damage?

As-is, this seems a two-fold power: either augment as much as possible and deal no damage, just for the debuff; or ignore the debuff and go for as much damage as possible.

Kyria’s Crystalline Aura wrote:

current thoughtline

IMHO, it could use a way to boost that bleed damage, or the DC. Other than that, I kinda liked the "pushing away" shtick and am sad to see it go, but as-is, seems solid enough (and really nasty on a Psychic Warrior -- use Defensive mode to wade in, switch to Offensive mode to shred opponents to bits).

Mental Contagion wrote:

Full-round is a power control. There's a lot of mind-affecting abilities to spread around, and many of them are excessively nasty. Spreading a dominate, for instance, means that you've saved someone two spells and now have three mind slaves. First augment isn't more granular because I want to hard-gate getting additional targets. Requiring two targets has been fixed.

a) Why not make it a one round casting time, like Astral Construct? I'm under the impression that a full-round casting time is the same time a Sorcerer takes to cast a metamagic'd spell, am I correct?

b) Mind Control is level 4 (granted, for Telepaths). This is level 6, and IMO around the same power-level. Not a good position to be in.
c) What happens when the surge debuff gets a longer duration 5 rounds? Does it persist independently?

Fracture Pattern wrote:

Yay! Balanced at third level power?

Honestly? No idea :) Gut feeling says it's fine, but I'll try to run some numbers.

Euterpe’s Prophetic Song wrote:

That cap has been placed, but consider the power as it evolves for me. By the time it does all of that it's still a concentration-duration buff that's trying to be a 9th level power. So, as the augments evolve, my question is this: do you feel it's balanced as a 3rd level power (1st augment), 5th level power (2nd augment), 7th level power (3rd augment) and then finally a 9th level power (final augment)?

1st level, +1 hit? Meh, compared to Bless.

3rd level, +3 hit and +3 skills? The cost is getting a bit steep to use as a skill-booster alone, and 3rd level gets this compared with Haste, and the extra attack beats the +2 hit.
5th level, +5 hit, +5 skills, +5 damage? Bards can probably buff this hard at this level, but not the whole party at once.
7th level, +7 hit, +7 skills, +7 damage, +7 AC? Yeah, at this point, it's just getting silly. There's nothing in the game comparable to the raw numbers you're giving out.
9th level, +9 hit, +9 skills, +9 damage, +9 AC, +9 Saving Throws? We're officially past silly, now.
Granted, that Concentration duration hurts, but the pay-off is huge. And that surge augment makes losing concentration not that much of a big deal, especially because you can contribute with more actions during those rounds.
[Edit: Forgot a detail. No matter how much you augment it, it's still a 1st level power, which makes the Concentration DCs relatively low.]

[Justin Sane]

Re: Fracture Pattern
Well, numbers crunched.

For my math, I'm using this for a lower-end estimate and this for a higher-end estimate. Also, we'll assume CR = APL, for simplicity. Not a perfect model, but using established numbers really cuts down on my work :P

Results found here.

Thoughts: Like Haste, its worth varies wildly based on party composition. Unlike Haste, it must be augmented as levels go by, because that "Fortitude Negates" bit is harsh. Boosting the 1st augment to 1:1 (like many other damage-dealing powers) would soften the blow a fair bit.
That said, Haste is at its best at low levels when it can double a teammate's damage potential and loses some steam later on. Fracture Pattern is the exact opposite, being somewhat lackluster early on and shining at higher levels.

[Prince of Knives]

Okay, so - the Cross-Discipline feats have been axed. On the other hand, you might want to look at the end of the PrC Doc