I'm specifically speaking about monsters/foes attempting to overcome the DR of a PC.
If a PC has DR X/magic, then the foe would have to have either a magic weapon, an adamantine weapon or a spell which mimiced that effects, correct?
If a PC has DR X/good (or chaos or whatever), then a foe would have to have a good aura (not merely a good alignment), an adamantine weapon or a spell which mimiced those effects, correct?
I've got some situations where some PC's will be having DR available to them and I want to make sure I know just how affected their encounters are going to be. I seem to remember that in earlier rules a creature could overcome DR based on its HD, but I don't think that's still in existence...
Energy Damage always bypasses DR. DR is worthless when you've been set on fire, having your life sucked out by a wraith, being frozen solid by a frost ray, whilst being stuck by lightning from a thunderbolt spell. Other than that pay attnetion to the monster special abilities. Dragons natural weapons count as "magic" for bypassing DR. Other creatures will have similiar DR-bypassing abilities. Check out the fiendish and celestial templates (they can be applied to pretty much any creaure) as we all know Smite bypasses all DR ever.
Does this help?
You needthe right material,the right alignment, or whatever, to overcome DR.
Adamantine weapons do not overcome DR/magic by themselves -- though, admittedly, anyone who can afford an adamantine weapon can probably afford to have it enchanted too.
+3 weapons count as silver or cold iron for DR purposes.
+5 weapons count as adamantine.
Monster HD don't do anything-- that was a 1st/2nd edition thing.
Most monsters just Power Attack to do more damage. :)
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I'm specifically speaking about monsters/foes attempting to overcome the DR of a PC.
It doesn't matter if it is a PC or not. The DR rules work the same regardless. The primary rules reference for damage reduction is in the Universal Monster Rules.
If a PC has DR X/magic, then the foe would have to have either a magic weapon, an adamantine weapon or a spell which mimiced that effects, correct?
DR X/magic is overcome by magic weapons or by natural weapons used by a creature that itself has DR X/magic. Some spells, such as magic weapon effectively make a weapon magic for a short period of time. A monk of 4th level or above has the ki pool magic ability, which allows the monks unarmed strikes to act as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR. A paladin's smite evil overcomes all DR, whether the target is evil or not. These are just examples. As an exception based rule systems, there are theoretically an infinite number of rules resources than can act as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR.
Adamantine has the ability to bypass hardness up to hardness 20. It does nothing against DR. Edit: other than DR/adamantine.
Spells generally are not affected by DR, but there are exceptions. FAQ on spells and DR
If a PC has DR X/good (or chaos or whatever), then a foe would have to have a good aura (not merely a good alignment), an adamantine weapon or a spell which mimiced those effects, correct?
See above regarding adamantine, spells, and examples of class features or similar rules resources that explicitly call out that attacks are aligned. There are spells that modify weapons so that their attacks overcome DR X/alignment. Align weapon is the most commonly used and the spell can be made into an oil.
An aligned aura is insufficient. For a creature to overcome DR X/alignment, the creature has to be of that alignment subtype. A cleric with a good aura does not overcome DR X/good. Creatures with the good subtype are often, but not always, Outsiders. Not all Outsiders of good alignment have the good subtype.
Edit: others have posted about the ability of magic weapons with a high enhancement bonus (+x) overcoming DR other than just DR X/magic. In these cases, it is the + value, not the enhancement cost for other enchantments, such as flaming or speed, that is needed.
+4 weapons count as adamantine. +5 is Alighment based. Some one brought this up a while back basicly how to demon kill other demons because of DR. there was no offical answer.
You know the one thing that overcomes every kind of DR?
Do more damage than the DR can resist. If you're a demon trying to kill another demon and your enemy has DR 10/good, just do more than 10 HP to him and you'll eventually get the job done - just hope you tear him up before he tears you up.
Demon vs. Demon can be a long, bloody battle. Much longer than Demon vs. Angel. Mainly because the demon and angel do full damage to each other and one of them usually wins fairly quickly. But the demons fighting each other do indignantly reduced damage, so it take a greater number of smaller hits. So instead of a few grievous gaping wounds, the demons fighting each other are slowly tearing each other to pieces, one tiny chunk at a time.
As for enemies fighting PCs, by the time PCs really get enough DR to matter, they should be frequently (not all the time, but sometimes) encountering things that can find ways to bypass it with the right kind of attack, or make different attacks that don't apply.
Also, if one guy has DR and the rest don't, any monster with half a brain will run past the DR guy and kill the squishies behind him (yes, he might spend a round or two attacking the DR guy to justify him figuring out that it's a bad idea before he heads for the back ranks).
This game isn't an MMO, and most characters have no way to make an enemy fight them. So, the fighter has a bunch of DR? No problem, the monsters figure this out quickly and then run past him and devour the no-DR guys behind him, then they can gang up on the fighter and tear him to pieces, slowly, one little chunk at a time.
(That's their plan, anyway, but PCs always seem to figure out a way to win)
Just to be clear, an admantine weapon will not overcome anything except DR adamantine (if that even exists) and magic because it counts as having a +1 enhancement, making it magical.
For DR/magic you need a magical weapon, or a spell that causes it to function as a magical weapon. All that is required is a +1 weapon. There are other odd abilities (like the monks ki pool) that will also let it bypass certain types of DR.
For silver you can get a silver blanche to coat a weapon in, but thats very metagamey if the mosters have no reason to know that the PC has DR/silver in advance. Mithril counts as silver as well for DR.
For DR/good you have to have a good aligned weapon, a good aligned wielder doesn't do anything. Some classes grant an ability that lets them count their weapons as good aligned (such as the Paladin's Aura of Faith at level 14). There are also enchants such as Holy, Unholy, Axiomatic, and Anarchic weapons that overcome their respective alignments.
Just to be clear, an admantine weapon will not overcome anything except DR adamantine (if that even exists) and magic because it counts as having a +1 enhancement, making it magical.
No. Adamantine weapons do not over come magical DR at all, as they are not magical (unless enchanted, of course). You have to have at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus to overcome DR/Magic, and the adamatines +1 bonus from being masterwork does not do that.
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A paladin's smite evil overcomes all DR, whether the target is evil or not.That target needs to be evil.
What's nice though, is that a Paladin's Smite will even overcome DR/-.
Hmm. It looks like there are a couple of conflicting statements in the rule.I see:
"Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess."
and
"If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect."
No. Adamantine weapons do not over come magical DR at all, as they are not magical (unless enchanted, of course). You have to have at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus to overcome DR/Magic, and the adamatines +1 bonus from being masterwork does not do that.
I stand corrected. I don't know why I was thinking the +1 enhancement counted it as magical. Probably because the only other thing that grants it is masterwork, and all magical items are masterwork, and all adamantine items are masterwork...I think I just rolled them together by accident.
+4 weapons count as adamantine. +5 is Alighment based. Some one brought this up a while back basicly how to demon kill other demons because of DR. there was no offical answer.You know the one thing that overcomes every kind of DR?
Do more damage than the DR can resist. If you're a demon trying to kill another demon and your enemy has DR 10/good, just do more than 10 HP to him and you'll eventually get the job done - just hope you tear him up before he tears you up.
Demon vs. Demon can be a long, bloody battle. Much longer than Demon vs. Angel. Mainly because the demon and angel do full damage to each other and one of them usually wins fairly quickly. But the demons fighting each other do indignantly reduced damage, so it take a greater number of smaller hits. So instead of a few grievous gaping wounds, the demons fighting each other are slowly tearing each other to pieces, one tiny chunk at a time.
As for enemies fighting PCs, by the time PCs really get enough DR to matter, they should be frequently (not all the time, but sometimes) encountering things that can find ways to bypass it with the right kind of attack, or make different attacks that don't apply.
Also, if one guy has DR and the rest don't, any monster with half a brain will run past the DR guy and kill the squishies behind him (yes, he might spend a round or two attacking the DR guy to justify him figuring out that it's a bad idea before he heads for the back ranks).
This game isn't an MMO, and most characters have no way to make an enemy fight them. So, the fighter has a bunch of DR? No problem, the monsters figure this out quickly and then run past him and devour the no-DR guys behind him, then they can gang up on the fighter and tear him to pieces, slowly, one little chunk at a time.
(That's their plan, anyway, but PCs always seem to figure out a way to win)
I really appreciate all of the responses. We're gearing up for a Way of the Wicked campaign which the players are totally jazzed about. Two of the four characters (a well-built Invulnerable Rager and a combat-dedicated Eidolon of the party Summoner) should have fairly substantial DR, especially in the middling levels. As the primary two front-line combatants both capable of dealing substantial damage, I wanted to get a sense of whether or not it would be game-breaking for most combat encounters. FWIW, the modules are on back-order right now, so I haven't had a chance to even begin to read through them yet.
The Barbarian should have DR 14/- by 12th level and the Eidolon DR 10/Chaos by then as well. The other two characters will be a mad Dwarven Evangelist (Madness Domain) and a pretty lethal Human Knifemaster.
DR that PCs get through Core rules is hardly ever game breaking. It is just about only effective versus the 'minion/mook' type opponents. If a PC has DR, spells and SLAs become the go to for dealing with those characters.
That being said, the first AP of the WotW might be rather 'easy' for this party make up. To make it more difficult you will need to actually use tactics and have the opponents play a little more intelligently. Don't have the guards rush up and get mowed down, have them use ranged attacks to pull the PCs to them to get off an attack or two in. There will also be some encounters that are really difficult, a flying opponent with ranged attacks versus a majority melee group is a terror.
A paladin's smite evil overcomes all DR, whether the target is evil or not.That target needs to be evil.
What's nice though, is that a Paladin's Smite will even overcome DR/-.
Hmm. It looks like there are a couple of conflicting statements in the rule.I see:
"Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess."
and
"If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect."
I believe it refers to the difference for Smite between "normal" evil creatures and "dragon, outsiders and undead" evil creatures.
A paladin's smite evil overcomes all DR, whether the target is evil or not.That target needs to be evil.
What's nice though, is that a Paladin's Smite will even overcome DR/-.
Hmm. It looks like there are a couple of conflicting statements in the rule.I see:
"Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess."
and
"If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect."
. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
You are ignoring the line before the statement, taking it out of context to create a conflict that doesn't exist. In context, a valid target for smite doesn't benefit from DR regardless of if it takes additional damage on the first successful attack or not.
Even without context the two lines you chose don't actually conflict, the target of the smite isn't a target if the ability fails and is wasted. It's akin to casting charm person on a tiefling, you can do it but noting happens as the spell fails.
+4 weapons count as adamantine. +5 is Alighment based. Some one brought this up a while back basicly how to demon kill other demons because of DR. there was no offical answer.You know the one thing that overcomes every kind of DR?
Do more damage than the DR can resist. If you're a demon trying to kill another demon and your enemy has DR 10/good, just do more than 10 HP to him and you'll eventually get the job done - just hope you tear him up before he tears you up.
That all well in true if the can do it, but here example of it is not possible, A Dretch could never ever kill another Dretch. the most damage they can do is 5 points, their Dr is 5
Slow prosses is a joke. Babau fighting each other would have to do max damage every every attack every round to do 3 points of damage to each other. if they did that every round it not going to happen it going to take 25 rounds.
None of these demons can score a critical hit?
When the battle is over, it's been 5 solid minutes watching them tear each other to bits. The winner stands over the loser, but it's hard to tell which one it is because he's so covered in cuts, scratches, gouges, scrapes, and bruises, and blood is pouring out of several dozen wounds, but he's grinning ear to ear because that's the most fun he's had in ages. The onlooking demons watched the whole thing in glee, and the spectators erupt into their own furious melee, each hoping to revel in that kind of glorious, bloody, shredding of a fellow demon.
I don't see the problem.
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A paladin's smite evil overcomes all DR, whether the target is evil or not.That target needs to be evil.
What's nice though, is that a Paladin's Smite will even overcome DR/-.
Hmm. It looks like there are a couple of conflicting statements in the rule.I see:
"Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess."
and
"If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect."
. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.You are ignoring the line before the statement, taking it out of context to create a conflict that doesn't exist. In context, a valid target for smite doesn't benefit from DR regardless of if it takes additional damage on the first successful attack or not.
Even without context the two lines you chose don't actually conflict, the target of the smite isn't a target if the ability fails and is wasted. It's akin to casting charm person on a tiefling, you can do it but noting happens as the spell fails.
I think the intent of the rule is clear, and that we'd agree on it. I also think that the smite evil section would be a lot clearer if "if not evil, is wasted" message is at the beginning of the section instead of where it is. I think I was a bit miffed that, after reviewing the rule section before posting my initial post in the thread, that the organization of the section is a tad messy, with the result that my quick scan missed all aspects of it.
I don't think there is more to this discussion than a discussion of grammar and writing style, so I'm not going to engage further re: smite evil.