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Level 1
150 starting gold
(Not sure on point buy but i betting 15)
Our party so far is a
Tengu Wizard
Thelfling Some kind self buffing mage that flys into combat
Human Monk (with some rogue)
and we may get a Rogue join us
I thought on looking the party over we need some divide caster in there and after alot of thought i settled on Druid bescause it a class i know the least about.
I don't know how to build it or anything.
I can all (Non-monster) Featured races, Base races and the dm approved me be a changling if i want.
So i'm asking for alot of help here. i'm more used to arcane casters and the spell list being thrown at me all at once may be over whelming
Also what Archtype to pick and 2 traits and 1 campaign trait to pick
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In a sense, don't worry about optimizing. If you've read any of the other commentary in this board, you should realize quickly that balance issues are a big thing in this game. Once you're through Book 1, your party is going to get more and more powerful, faster and faster. You're only going to have a tricky period in book 1, before you go Mythic, and that's just the lot in life of a low level druid. They're an unusual divine caster class.
Build your archetype based upon what kind of character you want to play. The raw power aspect's going to get taken care of for you, so don't even worry there. Seriously, you're going to be +10-12 attribute points over the course of the books above what you'd normally get, possibly with extra feats, all of the mythic goodies, and some. Min-maxing isn't important here, and can even detract a little from the 'epicness' of a fight.
That said, here's some considerations:
-Download the player's guide. Provided that your GM is doing the campaign traits (and they should, even if they tweak the bonuses. The story revolves around those choices to an extent.), read the backstory on each of those carefully.
-Choose the story you feel most interested in playing. If you're deeply concerned about mechanics, "Touched by Awfulness" and "Touched by Divinity" are the traits 'associated' with the two most common Mythic Paths for Druids: Guardian and Hierophant respectively. However, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if you're a Druid, it is not THAT important that you choose a campaign trait that is directly tied to your path. You will miss out on one neat benefit, but the world will not end I assure you.
Pick the trait that you find the most interesting, because it WILL come up again... possibly multiple times. These traits are as much stories of part of how you relate to the storyline as a character as much as they are stat blocks.
-As a Druid in this storyline, the following Archetypes don't really add or make sense to the tone of the story and events therein:
Aquatic Druid - No, seriously, you're not on the water. It's not Skulls & Shackles
Arctic Druid - Reign of Winter and Jade Regent are over that way. It's a northern nation, but cold temperatures are not a focus of the story. Hell is, and hell's a wee bit warm.
Blight Druid - Because most demons are immune, and this is really more the other side's schtick, not yours.
Desert and Jungle Druid - Again, wrong terrains. Druids of these varieties have less reason to be there unless you've got a nifty story.
Shark Shaman - Same problem as Aquatic.
Cave, Mountains, Plains, Swamp, Urban druids are all viable if you're interested in a terrain-focused druid. Each of these terrains is present in the setting to some extent.
Animal Shamans are also fine. There's no real issue with them, though again avoid aquatic animals. You will spend literally no time on the ocean all campaign. This is a landlocked campaign.
Anything from the Ultimate Magic selection should be fine too, except Shark Shaman.
If you're more mechanically focused than "what's fun," I would personally suggest that you choose a Domain over and above an Animal Companion. Druidic Animal Companions don't get robust enough without the Saurian archetype and a few Guardian abilities to actually merit the effort, and they're always glass jaws compared to the rest of the party. It's not a risk worth taking for minimal rewards. A companion will be useful in books 1-2, but by book 3 it's a liability and you'll be seriously considering retraining into a new archetype, again unless you're a Saurian. That... changes the whole topic of companion slightly. Domain Spell choice will open up more avenues for you as a caster.
One thing to keep in mind for this campaign: Electricity is a somewhat common Druidic weapon, as is fire. Be wary of electricity, because 90% of all demons are immune to it, and mythic versions of electricity based spells do not have "ignore immunity" tricks like Mythic Fireball (which means that if you REALLY want to do electric damage, you have to somehow get a mythic version of a spell that does ignore energy immunity and then use admixture or some other trick to graft electricity onto it. It can be really cool to be the one guy in all creation who's lightning bolting demons to death. Don't get me wrong. However, just be aware you're going to be putting in extra resources to do it.).
Lastly, and more important from a mechanical standpoint:
Decide between Guardian and Hierophant, or possibly Champion. Of all the decisions you will make, this is the one that I think is probably most important for a Druid. Switch hitters like druids get benefits from multiple angles. There's a merit to Guardian, Hierophant, Champion or even Trickster for them. Hell, I could even see Marshall in some of the more unusual buffing builds. Guardian and Hierophant have things specifically tailored to Druids, however, so you are most likely to go those routes.
If you don't pick up Dual Path at some point, the choice between Guardian and Hierophant is as follows:
-Do I want to be an unkillable engine who gets in the way of things that could hurt the teammates who can really do damage, or do I want to fire off the most potent magic a Druid is capable of firing off?
Guardian gives you "Hah hah, you have to target me, and you won't kill me" bonuses, while Hierophant gives you "The Power of the Gods at your finger-tips." Regardless, invest at least one mythic power or mythic feat by Tier 3 in Mythic Spell Lore or Mythic Spellcasting (they do the same thing. One's the feat, the other's the power), and consider Mythic Paragon if a lot of your effects have levels of potency based upon your Tier. Being +2 on all of that doesn't sound outstanding...
Until things like Eldritch Armor come up for Archmages, and the wizard has a permanent +15 Mage Armor at the end of the game that he can resummon as a swift action. Yeah, Mythic Paragon is worth looking at at least twice for most spellcasters. However, even if you don't take it, Mythic Spellcasting is the bread and butter of Mythic Heroes in the Divine and Arcane fields. The raw potency of several of the mythic spells you will get will see you through to the end.
(Seriously, I'm still abusing Mythic and Augmented Magic Missile regularly in Book 5. Some of these mythic spells will hold you until the bitter end.)
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Right cause my first adventure path my character died 48 times, so i get worried about it.
or being a useless character
My first campign characters died 48 times due to focusing to much on a roleplaying stats due to that such as a 16 cha human fighter bescause i wanted him to talk his way out of situations so first encounter died and the dm wouldn't let me try talk my way to let the Orcs let us pass.
then i tried a Transmute wizard who was greater spell focus transmutation and weapon focus and weapon pro large bastard sword. he got killed first encounter.
So i found i can make a character that sounds fun and sit 11 hours of the rest of the campign watching others play or... make a character that can live and be involved in my old group
i was thinking of witch or summoner as well.
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Ah, hmmm. I think Lochar has the right of it. In 'theory' this issue won't come up as much after the first book. "Hard to Kill" is kind of potent. But, it sounds as if you like to build fairly non-traditional characters and your GM likes to pit them against fairly traditional scenarios.
Perhaps try something traditional, and go for roleplaying focus through interaction rather than stats. Build storyline outside of stats. If your GM is on the rigid side, you might seriously consider building a traditional Healing Cleric. This party could use healing, potentially.
From what you've said, with consideration of the two character concepts you've described, I suspect you risk either being a 'healer' with less practical ability as a healer, or a switch-hitting up front fighter through your altered form. Based upon how you've died in the past, I don't know that you're going to avoid this with a Druid on its own.
I'm going to suggest: Go simple. Cleric. Touched by Divinity. Hierophant. And, dumb as this sounds, seriously consider "Rich Parents" if you get regular traits. Pick up a solid set of starter armor like MW Agile Breastplate. Being properly geared will help you in terms of survival, especially if you keep the Cleric in the second rank of fighting where they belong. Providing occasional flanks and usually making sure the party is buffed and healed.
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But, in the end, do what you enjoy.
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Alright, it's definitely an expectations issue.
Druids cast off of Wisdom.
There are zero animals in the world wound.
You get access to Charm animal anyways, which builds off of your casting ability, so DCs are Wisdom based, not Cha.
If you're not going to build towards Wisdom, build towards Str/Dex so you can be a fighting druid.
Otherwise, it's just going to be the same issue as your fighter except worse.
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Ok. It 'sounds' as if you want to try your hand at a 'divine caster' type. With this understanding, I would suggest that Druid is not the wisest choice. First of all, if you're going to do the background caster as a Druid, as Lochar said, you actually will need a Wisdom that can reasonably hit 19 by level 17 through one method or another, minimum. Otherwise, you will not be able to cast spells. That simple.
It sounds, on the surface, as if you're playing at a 15 point buy for your character. This does limit things somewhat, but not as much as some might think. However, it does give an incentive not to spend all your points in your primary statistic. Doing so leaves you with very little in all the other statistics.
In terms of campaign expectations: Any animals present are only present because you nudge at the GM to have them there. There's a few Magical Beasts, but 95% of all encounters involve Humans, Tieflings, Demons, Daemons and Demodands. That's your NPC cadre. Those six generic types of races will encompass almost all encounters through book 5, and likely 6, though I haven't done 6 yet. That means that, while Charm animal is kind of nifty, you won''t get the chance to use it without the GM making allowances, and as has been brought up: When it isn't in this material, your GM hasn't shown a willingness to come up with a lot of additional material just for you.
Consider an Oracle or Cleric. Oracles have limited numbers of spells known, so you can control how many spells you have to deal with on a regular basis and learn them well. Clerics frequently participate, if they're more caster-build clerics, by standing back, buffing the party and keeping participants alive. I am concerned that you might not enjoy this quite as much at times, as it's very cut and dry what a cleric does, and the healer/buffer type doesn't do much else, but there will be large periods where you as a cleric can have a fair bit of fun with feeling like the most important member of the party (because your group has an alarmingly low capacity towards healing. You can get through Book 3 with that if you're careful and sensible, but lack of ability to keep the party up is going to start mattering the deeper you get.).
If you go with Oracle, you can serve as a secondary healer with other spells that you cast. They carry so many spells frequently that they usually don't blow through their magic. If you go Oracle of Life, you will primarily be a healer.
Regardless of whether you go Oracle or Cleric, I suggest choosing a version that spreads your stats around more, but have a caster stat (Charisma for Oracles, Wisdom for Clrics) that is 14, as your bonuses won't kick in fast enough that you don't care before getting Level 4 spells, especially as a Cleric. Then, having spread yourself out, look at your Heavy Encumbrance and get the best basic armors available that you can fit with your gear into this, regardless of if you have the proficiency in that armor. Treat Dexterity as a dump stat (since you seem to like focusing on a limited number of attributes), armor up with heavier armor and get "Faith's Reach" as your first tier ability. Now, all you need to do is be within 30' of your party to heal them. Stay close but let them be in the field of fire and you can test out your chops as a casting-style cleric. Just be mindful of who needs healing in the party.
That, at least, is my two cents. I'm not sure with what you're thinking of for a Druid that you'll enjoy the experience as much, as you're building to a repetition of problems from the past.
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A further two cents on attributes at game start:
Without even getting into Tomes and Manuals, just counting the automatic gains you will have over the course of the campaign, you will get 15 additional attributes before the game is done unless your GM has modified the mythic system. Automatic. No questions asked. You will simply get them. Every even tier: +2 to a stat. Pick one. Every 4 levels +1.
There's +2-4 that are potentially acquirable through a few different routes in the campaign that you may net and which aren't going to limit your gains from "Inherent" bonuses like Wish or Manual/Tome purchases in the last books.
This means that you can get 15-19 additional attribute points by book 6, without even factoring in Story Feats, Manuals, Tomes, Wishes and other malarky.
So, if you're starting with a 15 point buy? As a human, Half-Orc or Half-Elf, you can afford to go 16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8; 16, 14, 12, 13, 10, 10 or something similar. You've got attributes to spare in this campaign. In spades. And if you're a divine caster, then you are probably NOT going to be the spell-caster who is the main boom boom to the bad guys unless you're a particular kind of Oracle. So, having an eventual 34-45 in your caster stat just isn't as important for you. Spread yourself out some and don't feel constrained to put all your eggs in one basket.
A list of Guides to 'most any class
There's some druid guides listed in here. They make good reading.
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Well is there a cleric or orcle that i can have a animal companion
bescaus i want to play the hooded figure standing back casting up a storm while a great beast protects her
my plan was human or changeling on race
Oracle, Nature Mystery,
Revelation #1 to suit your interests -"Bonded Mount (Su): You gain the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal mount. The creature must be one that you are capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium oracle can select a camel or a horse. A Small oracle can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if she is at least 4th level. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using your oracle level as your effective druid level. Bonded mounts have an Intelligence score of at least 6."
Available at Level 1.
Revelation #2 -
"Friend to the Animals (Ex): Add all summon nature's ally spells to your spell list. You must still select these spells using your allotment of spells known. Animals within 30 feet of you receive a bonus on all saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier."
Also Available at Level 1.
This would also allow you to summon more animals to your side as allies in fights, and at higher levels moderately powerful giants and fey. You would need to select these spells for your list of spells known. However, if you choose to play a human, and your GM allows the Favored Class Options, then you can add additional spells known every level from the levels below your maximum level, making this less of an issue.
You may use "Nature's Whispers" to reduce the importance of your Dexterity in determining your AC, replacing it with your Charisma bonus and increasing your AC Significantly.
"Speak with Animals" can be acquired to automatically speak with a number of different kinds of animals without casting a spell.
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So, in answer to your question: Yes, you can do most of what you want with an Oracle, and have your caster stat be Charisma, focusing most of your attention on that stat above others. Choosing "Extra Revelation" a couple of times at an early level (I don't suggest more than 2 times, as you will gain a certain number of revelations as is) gives you access to most of the tricks you desire from the start, or close to the start and a few improvements to your survival rate.
While you blast away with elemental attack spells and memorize healing spells that you may use to heal others, you may also send your creature in. Selecting the Guardian Mythic Path can allow you to further bolster your animal companion, and going dual path with Hierophant can permit you to select spells like Faith's reach to heal with touch spells at 30'.
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Your call. Faith's Reach allows you to do that at a range of 30', and an Oracle of Nature won't be focusing on healing spells automatically. You get a lot more spells/day as an Oracle and can cast any spell you know, so you can focus your attention on summoning allies for the fight and then blasting, saving just enough healing in case someone's in a pinch.
But, if you REALLY want to focus on that pet as the most deadly thing... yeah. Summoner. Just make it animal-like in appearance for flavor.
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Yes... you 'could' do that. However, I'm going to repeat. You will gain, without any shenanigans, without buying manuals or tomes, without attribute-boosting headbands, without anything at all, 15 additional stats you level and gain mythic tiers.
So, let's just say you go Human, you can do let's say two or three builds:
1) 20 Caster Stat, 10 for four stats and 8 in one stat.
2) 18 Caster Stat, 14 in one stat, 10 in four stats.
3) 16 Caster Stat and a mixture of other stats.
If you dump all those extra attributes you get with every level and Tier into your Caster stat: 1 has a 35. 2 has a 33. 3 has a 31. The difference, unless you're focusing on hitting the enemies with spells, is minimal.
Going with a very high caster stat, no armor, minimal constitution and no dexterity bonus will make you extremely vulnerable to attack. You might get through book one if your party is reasonable about protecting you, but you will have a lot of issues.
However, saying that:
If you want to be able to blast things with a few attacks on a regular basis, have a powerful animal companion, a high defense for your level, stand back away from most of the fighting and occasionally heal? You can do that with an Oracle of Nature.
If you do that with a Druid, you can do most of those, though you won't be spontaneously casting Cure spells and to have the Healing Domain, you won't have an animal companion.
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Yeah, I'm sort of getting that feeling too, Lochar. Much as I love hearing myself talk, I think I've sent them enough volumes.
>.> Did give me an idea or two for stupid rage Prophet builds, mind you. Buuuut, I think I'm done here.
I dunno what mythic is, my last character was a barbbarain and i found it quite dull and i don't want a druid that made the same way.
I like a character that has enivorment control but since the rest of the party is basically wizards i should start with an animal companion to protect myself and them until they gain some levels to fight.
I just feel you keep tellign me
ME: "I wanna do that"
You: "That's impossible you troll do it this way and like it!! FU"
also i tried your orcle build myself facing my animal companion off against 3 goblins it didn't do well
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I have only once said you might be a troll, because you've responded to each suggestion by requesting a wildly unrelated suggestion.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mythicAdventures/mythicHeroes.html
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mythicAdventures/mythicFeats.html
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mythicAdventures/mythicSpells.html
Unless your GM is not running mythic rules in Wrath of the Righteous, you will be using those rules starting at the end of Book 1, and will become Mythic at the very end of the Book. You will gain Tiers as a mythic, roughly, at a rate of 2 tiers/Book in books 2-5 and your last tier in book 6. Wrath of the Righteous is built with the assumption that you will be Level 20/Tier 10 for about half of book 6.
I suggest that you speak with your GM about whether or not you will be using Mythic rules. If you won't, pretty much all of my suggestions will change.
Provided that you are playing with Mythic rules: Every Tier, you get 3+2/Tier Mythic Power Points which you can use to boost d20 rolls as a swift action or do neat stuff with. You will get one Mythic power, depending on if you're a Champion (melee fighting), Marshall (Buffing/bolstering allies), Guardian (Defending/harder to kill), Trickster (Rogueish/skills), Archmage (Arcane caster) or Hierophant (Divine caster). Each of these do weird things, like for example Faith's reach: It allows you to cast a Touch Healing spell out to a range of 30 feet. On Odd tiers, you also get a mythic feat, which can significantly upgrade a feat you already have or give you a few other nifty tricks. At Even tiers, you get +2 to any one stat you want. On top of that, you will get things like initiative bonuses, being harder to kill, faster recovery of abilities and damage, Evasion-light for all attacks you save on that aren't from a mythic monster, and a host of other abilities as you gain levels. Your character, by book 6, will be on par with Solars in terms of power, or higher.
If your GM is not using mythic rules, then he will be downgrading the difficulty of encounters a lot. It's necessary in several cases. But that ONLY starts at the END of Book 1. You're still a squishy squishy Level 1 at Level 1.
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Regarding Your Animal Companion as an Oracle at level 1. Animal Companions and Familiars are ALWAYS weak at level one (Unless you somehow convinced your GM to let you have an Axebeak or something to start). You have to build them up. Buff them with spells. A lot of times at level 1, you aren't sending them into the fight, so you pick up a light crossbow and shoot people instead for a level or two.
If you want your 'companion' to be able to wade in and fight it out right from level one, then you are correct in thinking you want to play a Summoner. Their pet is ready to fight from the very start, and if it dies it doesn't matter as much as an Animal Companion does.
What a human Oracle with two "Extra Revelations" can have, however, is a Charisma of 16-18 that doubles as their Dex for AC, giving them a high overall AC at the start of the game (Heavy Shield, Chain Shirt and a +3 or +4 "Dex" bonus to AC means an AC at game start in the 20s, comparable to defensive fighters and Clerics in heavier armor for cheaper) an Animal Companion and the ability to summon more Nature's Allies from the start.
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really i did a pathfinder group campign and my Cat did more damage and killed more things then the barbbarain in the part when i tried it with Lili, the only thing the animal didn't kill was the end boss who had 5/cold iron DR on it.
would copy paste the character from pathfinder character work fine?
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/npcCodex/iconic/lini.html
This is sorta what i want.
Before Combat Lini casts goodberry at the start of each day. Before combat, she casts barkskin and stoneskin on herself and animal growth, bull's strength, and greater magic fang on her animal companion. If she's joined by several allies, Lini casts mass bull's strength to improve their attacks.
During Combat Lini attempts to stay out of melee, sending her animal companion to fight while she uses her magic.
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yes, well, Lini is level 5 when she's dropping all of those spells onto her pet. A level 5 Animal Companion is a very different thing from a Level 1 Animal Companion.
If you want to try and play Lini, the iconic Gnome Druid, you can. She wasn't a terrible build in my opinion. Using those tactics will work, once you start sporting Level 3 or so, but you'll want to be careful about an animal companion at Level 1-2.
However, here's the trick:
Str 6, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 15
This means her original stats were these:
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 13
Lini is a 20 point buy, not a 15 point buy. So, you'll need to make a few adjustments in the stats you use for her to reflect this, if your GM is doing 15 point buy. Above all, however, you will notice something important:
She's got a Charisma unadjusted by her race of 13, not 16, as you were originally planning to have as a Human. She's also got a Wisdom of 16, when you were originally looking at a 10, and Wisdom is the Druid's casting stat. Lini, like most of the iconic characters, is not putting all of her eggs in one basket.
Most of the builds you've suggested trying focus on having one stat at 16 or 18 before racial bonuses. The iconics spread their points around even when they've got 20 points to spend. Only the dedicated spellcasters: Ezren, Seoni and Lem are sporting a casting stat of 18. Even Kyra spreads her points around more, and she is a dedicated cleric.
A lot of our suggestions have sort of been based upon the kind of unusual way you've approached these classes. You want to basically try and play Lini? Go for it. That's how a traditional Druid is built. Lini in mythic is terrifying.
But, if you're going to build Lini, build something very close to Lini. Don't monkey around too much with those stats. Druids are a tight-rope, because they need more than one stat to be effective.
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Changeling is a logical Druid choice, as are Gnome and Human. You can get that Wisdom 16 of hers more easily. Your Con and Hit Points will suffer some, but you can still have good overall stats.
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 13
Or a similar build could be fairly close to Lini, other than that you're going to want to be more careful than she is about getting hit, due to lower hit points and fort saves.
So, if you're going that route as a changeling, you can have a better time. This, by the way, is a more sensible approach to a Druid than before.
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To be honest: That's a Six of One, Half Dozen of another question. Each of those will have its own advantages. I know I said this before, but I'd say "Go with the one you think would be the most fun." All three races will give you a small benefit you can capitalize on. Changelings get your caster stat as a bonus, a small natural armor boost to improve survivability and claws just in case. Gnomes get magical tricks and size bonuses to AC, and they don't have a constitution problem like changelings. Humans get better skills, better feats and slightly easier to figure out stats.
Neither will mechanically matter in the long run. Play the one you think is fun.
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What Victor is getting at is that you're going to be dealing with DR a lot. A pet is doable, but you're going to be dealing with DR from demons. Versatile Weapon can get around this, but that's a Level 3 spell, and it's not normally one that Druids learn.
Overall: You're going to need some method of dealing with DR/Cold Iron and DR/Good, possibly DR/Magic. An Amulet of Mighty Fists +3 should do the trick, but it's pricy.
A summoner would have a slightly easier time, but DR will be an issue at times no matter what. In book 1? They'll be a lot less of an issue.