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tldr; The wrong pregens were used, because of marketing demands intended to sell the Advanced Class Guide. However, the PFS chronicle requires that original characters or these specific pregens be used, probably for marketing reasons. When will Paizo either re-release the module with effective pregens? When will PFS allow the level 4 pregens to be used in this module? Because as it stands right now, this is unacceptable as an introduction to Pathfinder intended to bring in new players and customers. Yeah, it was free, but I wouldn't run it if you paid me.A frank question for you, Kyra Clone: Would you run it if the 4th-level pregens were allowed? You raise many points in your post above, and it's unclear to me whether you require all of your concerns be addressed or just this one before you consider the module suitable.
After reading the module, and the insane restrictions set by PFSIf you wish to effect a change, I kindly request you not refer to Paizo staff as insane, callous, or incompetent. I think it's a good policy for dealing with people in general.
I think this is a good point. The clone has raised some legitimate concerns, I think, but has couched them in hostility.
I enjoyed this scenario. I played in it with a group all playing the included pre-gens. I found it very difficult, but I thought the scenario was well-written.
I think asking that the scenario be opened up to the 4th-level PFS pre-gens is a perfectly reasonable request. I hope that John asking for clarification indicates a sincere willingness to consider that request.
The release of this scenario certainly reflects a confluence of minor problems which combine to form a much larger issue. I would expect that Paizo will learn from this experience.
But it is unfair to unload that level of hostility at the author of the scenario, who is not in charge of the decisions that much of the complaints are in regards to, and who has come here specifically to discuss concerns that we have over this product which we did not pay any money for.
Yes, the scenario was released in part to promote the new classes in the ACG. That is not a bad thing. Promotions like this help Paizo make money, which they can, in turn, put towards development and other programs such as PFS.
Yes, the classes were chosen based on the available artwork. Such is the reality of running a time-constrained publishing business. Paizo is a leader in this industry. They recognize that mistakes were made and have owned up to them. They were under no obligation to explain why these classes were chosen, yet they did so. That deserves admiration, in my opinion. We all hope that something like this doesn't happen again in the future, but if we are to be realistic we will recognize that unforeseen events like this can happen anytime there are deadlines involved.
Yes, the characters chosen were, for the most part, suboptimal for this scenario. Again, Paizo is aware of the reasons this happened, they have owned up to them, and I'm sure they are going to try hard to not repeat those mistakes.
Yes, it was unfortunate that we were not allowed to play 4th-level pre-gens for the Free RPG Day. It is also understandable. Paizo was excited to show off the new classes. They wanted to make sure that people got to see them. Honestly, I think most of us were excited to see them also. I cannot imagine that I would have chosen to play a Kyra or Amiri over the chance to play Ooloch.
One alternative, which I don't think most of us want, is that Free RPG Day modules are not sanctioned for PFS until a week later, or possibly never. That would prevent the type of backlash that they are receiving now, but I don't think it is desirable.
I do think that it is now reasonable to ask that the scenario be opened up to all of the 4th-level pre-gens. It will make it easier to play the scenario with tables of 3 with a GM pre-gen.
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Sorry it took me so long to get back to this.
A frank question for you, Kyra Clone: Would you run it if the 4th-level pregens were allowed? You raise many points in your post above, and it's unclear to me whether you require all of your concerns be addressed or just this one before you consider the module suitable.
It would be much more likely. It would be a more workable patch on the modules other problems.
If you wish to effect a change, I kindly request you not refer to Paizo staff as insane, callous, or incompetent. I think it's a good policy for dealing with people in general.
Somewhere along the line, several balls were dropped. With as good as the content from Paizo usually is, this was a very disappointing experience. The most disappointing part of it was that the problems come from the business side of it, and not the gaming hobby side. The overall idea for the module was a good one, and much of the roughness around the edges was added for financial reasons. That hurts.
Kyra Clone, what insane restrictions? That they wanted people to use the new iconics?
It's that they prohibited the use of the old iconics. On top of that the new iconics are (by the author's admission) underpowered for the scenario. If they'd been level 4 like the standard iconics, and you could choose between them and the standard iconics, that would make a lot of difference.
The release of this scenario certainly reflects a confluence of minor problems which combine to form a much larger issue. I would expect that Paizo will learn from this experience.
But it is unfair to unload that level of hostility at the author of the scenario, who is not in charge of the decisions that much of the complaints are in regards to, and who has come here specifically to discuss concerns that we have over this product which we did not pay any money for.
I should clarify, my hostility is not for the module's author, who made some relatively minor and understandable mistakes, but it is for the business side of it, and the restrictions they put on the module for business reasons.
Yes, it was unfortunate that we were not allowed to play 4th-level pre-gens for the Free RPG Day. It is also understandable. Paizo was excited to show off the new classes.
They could, without much difficulty, have made the module pregens 4th level instead of 3rd.
At this point it's a dead horse and I'm moving on, as I expect many others are as well. A 2.5/5 rating from the community speaks for itself.
So, I'm about to run this but am aware that the warpriest was/is about to be changed due to the release of the ACG - should I revise Oroch accordingly to the new/updated ACG warpriest (sacred weapon)?
Specifically for this module?
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Having trouble tracking down the quote at the moment, so I can't say for sure.
Edit: Found it. Nothing specifically about this.
thanks. wish i knew where to expect an announcement about this. now i'm even wondering if the ACG iconics will be level 4 like the other iconics, or level 3 like the pre-gens in the module.
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Also, <here>:
We have the new pregenerated characters debuting at Gen Co Indy today. I expect we will see them publically available soon after the convention.
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So, I'm about to run this but am aware that the warpriest was/is about to be changed due to the release of the ACG - should I revise Oroch accordingly to the new/updated ACG warpriest (sacred weapon)?
It's my understanding that the pregens in the scenario were made using the final ACG versions of the classes, not the playtest versions, so I don't think there's anything to update.
I'll add a vote, without any hostility or anger, for opening the module up to all of the pregens. I would understand if paizo wants to wait a little bit to do that now that the ACG is out. My reasoning is less to do with the difficulty of the scenario and more to do with special cases like this being confusing to organizers, GMs, and players. I'm willing to bet there have been sessions of this run with the 4th level pregens just because people don't understand or don't read the restriction.
