| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Still worldbuilding ... I have a culture who live in wide open plains and work with cattle and horses, sometimes mounted, sometimes on foot.
I want them to use lengths of rope as a weapon. They might be one end of a regular 50 ft rope (with the rest wrapped around them), or just a shorter length (say 10 or 12 feet) of rope. After training, they'll be able to swing this in order to knock down or trip horses and cattle. They could also use it in a more martial way, to knock riders from their mounts.
I'm trying to work out how to do the stats on this ... here are some thoughts
- it may either not cause damage, or only cause nonlethal damage. Being hit by the end of a skilfully-used rope probably hurts as much as being being hit by a really good punch; generally it's just a pain but sometimes (bad luck or really good user) it can cause serious damage.
- Being able to trip, dismount riders, have reach (it's a long length of rope after all) and the potential to cause lethal damage are way too powerful to have in one weapon just for the price of an exotic weapon feat. So, to get the best out of the weapon would require additional feats.
Purchasing and weight - same as rope (hemp); only the end section of it is used for fighting.
Basic - exactly the same rules and description as fighting with a whip, except it deals bludgeoning damage instead of slashing. Or does it make more sense, given the rope is bulkier than a whip and a handful to wield, to improve the hit dice to d6 (same as a club) but make attacking with it a full-round action?
I'd give the proficiency away as a campaign trait (otherwise, requires an exotic weapon proficiency).
Feat - "Improved Rope Fighting" (mimics improved unarmed strike, or whip mastery from ultimate combat)
Prerequisite: Weapon Proficiency (Rope fighting)
Fighters with ropes may now deal armed or unarmed damage, at their choice, and no longer provoke strikes of opportunity for using the rope.
Feat - "Greater Rope Fighting" (mimics unseat)
Prerequisites: Str 13, Improved Rope Fighting, Improved Trip, Base Attack Bonus +6 (in line with other 'greater' feats).
You can attempt to knock a rider from their mount with your rope. If your regular attack hits, you may immediately make a free bull rush attempt in addition to the normal damage. If successful, the target is knocked off his mount and lands prone in a space adjacent to his mount that is directly away from you.
What do you think? Certainly flavourful, but is it balanced - attractive but not overpowered?
Lasso: This thrown weapon is a length of rope with a simple open knot on one end that allows you entangle a foe like you would using a net. The DC to cast a spell while entangled with a lasso is 10 + the spell level being cast. An entangled creature can slip free with a DC 15 Escape Artist check as a full-round action. The lasso has 2 hit points and AC 10. It requires a DC 23 Strength check to break it. On a successful hit, the lasso tightens; to use it again you must spend a standard action sliding the knot to enlarge the loop.
Lasso 1 sp — — — — 5 lbs. — see text
Why not just give prof(exotic weapon):lasso?
Otherwise, the first bit that I see is- why a bullrush that knocks down?
Wouldn't that be a 'free trip action' instead?
Lasso: This thrown weapon is a length of rope with a simple open knot on one end that allows you entangle a foe like you would using a net. The DC to cast a spell while entangled with a lasso is 10 + the spell level being cast. An entangled creature can slip free with a DC 15 Escape Artist check as a full-round action. The lasso has 2 hit points and AC 10. It requires a DC 23 Strength check to break it. On a successful hit, the lasso tightens; to use it again you must spend a standard action sliding the knot to enlarge the loop.
Lasso 1 sp — — — — 5 lbs. — see textWhy not just give prof(exotic weapon):lasso?
Because I want it to also be a striking weapon; you can hit someone hard with the end of a rope, particularly with a knot in it. We're just tripping with the rope (or knocking them from their saddle), not entangling with it. You can do this with a rope in real life (though it takes a bit of practice), so it would be good to have rules that support it. Whip felt closest as a starting point, but needed adjustment. (I guess it should also be two handed) Also, I don't want it to feel like the wild west - which is the natural association i have for the lasso.
Otherwise, the first bit that I see is- why a bullrush that knocks down?
Wouldn't that be a 'free trip action' instead?
Good question ... I took it from the 'Unseat' feat; it's NOT physically a bullrush (either in 'unseat', which is crb, or here) but the bull rush mechanic seems a reasonable way to handle it.
The Equipment Trick feat can let you treat a length of rope as a spiked chain that deals bludgeoning damage.
Maybe that?
I wondered about using Spiked Chain rules but 4 ft long didn't seem like people would be using it to trip/herd cattle and horses - and it's too close for comfort to wait if you're going to defend yourself against mounted attackers.
Thanks for drawing my attention to Equipment Trick though - interesting stuff in there http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/equipment-trick-combat (I see it also allows for using a rope as a whip if you have Exotic weapon proficiency (whip))
We could use Equipment Trick (rope) + Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip) + Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) (and possibly + Throw Anything) ... though needing three (or four) feats just to get started seems very steep ... and it still wouldn't provide a mechanism for you to unmount a rider. And level 1 players should be able to start with the (at least basic) ability to use the rope as a weapon, even if to get the most out of it they need to add feats later.
Maybe
Exotic weapon prof (rope): rope data and damage (non-lethal, whether it provokes like a whip, reach, whether it can be used two-handed, whether it can be a double weapon, etc.)
followed by
Rope Master -treat a rope as a whip for any feat describing whip
(that lets you use the whip mastery feats instead of writing new ones- that way special abilities become available as feats at set levels. Though you could give an archetype or such that breaks the preq. rules as you see fit.)
Maybe
Exotic weapon prof (rope): rope data and damage (non-lethal, whether it provokes like a whip, reach, whether it can be used two-handed, whether it can be a double weapon, etc.)
followed by
Rope Master -treat a rope as a whip for any feat describing whip
(that lets you use the whip mastery feats instead of writing new ones- that way special abilities become available as feats at set levels. Though you could give an archetype or such that breaks the preq. rules as you see fit.)
Unfortunately the whip mastery feats don't make sense for a thick rope ... specifically you can't use it to grasp small objects (a whip is about 1/6 inch thick, a heavy rope an inch and a half thick), nor could you use it to swing on as it's too thick to wrap itself securely around a support. These are both features of improved whip mastery. It will trip someone very well, but won't wrap itself around them well enough to make a grapple; a feature of greater whip mastery.
It has the potential reach of a whip, but it's slower - and hits harder. You can't grapple with it, but it's great at tripping. It may wrap itself around you just enough to drag you out of your saddle, but won't stay wrapped around you. Oh, that's a good point. .. unlike the Unseat feat I stole the text from, you'd most likely be pulled from your mount, not pushed.
Part of me wonders whether it would be better to deal with it more like a ranged weapon.
Regarding archetypes etc. .. I think it would make a good ranger weapon, so I may build a ranger combat style for it.
Dot for later consideration.
I didn't realize you were talking about such a thick piece of rope.
Now I can't picture how you could possibly use a 50' length of 1 1/2 thick rope in combat, but I'm remembering an old Palladium book (I think) that gave a list of weapons from around the world.
One description concerned a chain or a weighted chain which was used not as a flexible weapon, but in the same manner as a staff. (I pictured lots of spinning.)
How much would 50' of cable weigh?
You're only using 10 or 12 feet of the rope; but the rope could be substantially longer (with the excess kept coiled). I'll try to work out the optimal thickness, but it's substantially thicker and heavier than a whip.