Hi,
I want to make sure I'm reading RAW/RAI as intended.
It looks like Brutish Shove does not stack with Titan Wrestler but Knockdown does. This not quite right. Sure, the shove on brutish shove is automatic but the flat footed is only until the end of your turn. Knockdown by comparison put the target prone so that your friends can play whack-a-mole. Assurance on athletics can make Knockdown automatic on the non-big boss assuming you invest in athletics.
Am I missing something?
I don't see why Titan Wrestler wouldn't stack with Brutish Shove. From reading the both feats they seem to mesh perfectly fine. Am I missing something?
Seems fine?
Brutish Shove is a Strike + Automatic Shove and flatfooted (if target your size or smaller) for 1 action. Flatfooted on a Miss. Only counts as 1 attack for MAP
Knockdown is a Strike + Athletics Check to Trip for 2 actions, and counts as 2 for MAP.
Knockdown has higher chance of failure on one of their rolls, costs more actions, no failure condition.
Later on your can take Powerful Shove to use it against creatures up to 2 sizes larger than you without needing Titan Wrestler.
Maybe you're a Fighter that isn't raising proficiency in Athletics but likes the utility of Brutish Shove since it lets you avoid making an Athletics Check to Shove.
Like an Elf using a Elven Curve Blade so they have lower Str, Brutish Shove lets them use Finesse to attack and possibly Shove without needing to make the Athletics check.
I don't see why Titan Wrestler wouldn't stack with Brutish Shove. From reading the both feats they seem to mesh perfectly fine. Am I missing something?
It's because Brutish Shove says you can only Shove if the target is your size or smaller, Powerful Shove later lets you shove things Larger than you.
Seems fine?
Brutish Shove is a Strike + Automatic Shove and flatfooted (if target your size or smaller) for 1 action. Strike + Flatfooted if not your size or smaller. Only counts as 1 attack for MAP
They aren't flat-footed if they are bigger than you.
If you hit a target that is your size or smaller, that creature is flat-footed until the end of your current turn, and you can automatically Shove it, with the same benefits as the Shove action (including the critical success effect, if your Strike was a critical hit).
I'm not sure what you intended.
Seems fine?
Brutish Shove is a Strike + Automatic Shove and flatfooted (if target your size or smaller) for 1 action. Strike + Flatfooted if not your size or smaller. Only counts as 1 attack for MAP
They aren't flat-footed if they are bigger than you.
If you hit a target that is your size or smaller, that creature is flat-footed until the end of your current turn, and you can automatically Shove it, with the same benefits as the Shove action (including the critical success effect, if your Strike was a critical hit).I'm not sure what you intended.
Ah good catch, was mistakenly adding a Strike to the failure condition of Brutish Shove.
Seems about right. Brutish Shove is an automatic success against specific targets if your attack succeeds, you don't roll Athletics, which explains the need, in terms of balance, for it not to be affected by the skill feat like Knockdown, which requires both an attack roll and an Athletics roll.
I wonder how game-breaking it would be to house-rule it so that you can't Brutish Shove a huge creature, but it can affect creatures one size larger than it normally would...
I don't see why Titan Wrestler wouldn't stack with Brutish Shove. From reading the both feats they seem to mesh perfectly fine. Am I missing something?It's because Brutish Shove says you can only Shove if the target is your size or smaller, Powerful Shove later lets you shove things Larger than you.
Ah it seems in my quick reading I skipped the most important part.
Well it seems that Brutish Shove requires a two handed weapon, instead of having a hand free. It also has an upgrade option later on so it seems fine.