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No. They FAQ'd you being able to retrain into a prestige class, precisely because of people doing that Linky
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Sigh. I am going to hate myself for posting this loophole.
Wizard Scryer with 1st level feat Bloatmage Initiate:
1st level: Wizard 1:
2nd level: Wizard 1 / Bloatmage 1: (Legal, scryer gets him a 3rd level SLA)
3rd level: Wizard 1 / Bloatmage 2 takes Divine Obedience: (Legal, ditto)
4th level: Wizard 1 / Bloatmage 2 / Evangalist 1: (Legal)
Retraining: retrain one level of Bloatmage for Evangalist 2 and select Aligned Class bloat mage:
is now: Wizard 1 / Bloatmage 1 / Evangalist 2: (Legal, but effectively +1 bloatmage class)
(The restriction on retraining into prestige class levels only applies to swapping base classes for prestige classes.)
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4th level: Wizard 1 / Bloatmage 2 / Evangalist 1: (Legal)
Not PFS legal. You need to be level 6 to take evangelist.
Misc.: all material in chapter 1 is legal except pages 92–99; Prestige classes: the evangelist, exalted, and sentinel prestige classes are legal for play. The evangelist prestige class may not be taken as an option until 6th level
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Ah. missed the level six lock in AR.
Hmm... still leaves ambiguity if at level six you could back train earlier levels. Probably not.
Sigh. If they want to level lock prestige classes, it makes it weird what the point of letting SLA's qualify for them, especially since they pretty much said the point of SLAs was to premit early entry into prestige classes...
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Ah. missed the level six lock in AR.
Hmm... still leaves ambiguity if at level six you could back train earlier levels. Probably not.
Sigh. If they want to level lock prestige classes, it makes it weird what the point of letting SLA's qualify for them, especially since they pretty much said the point of SLAs was to premit early entry into prestige classes...
Well they just don't want you to have early access to the boons that evangelist provides.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Examples:
5 levels of fighter until you qualify for Hellknight at 6th. Then retrain all your fighter levels so you are now a 6th level Hellknight.
3 levels of cleric and 3 levels of wizard qualify you for Mystic Theurge at 7th. At 3cleric/3wizard/3MT your levels of MT self-fulfill the prestige class requirements, so you can now retrain all your cleric and wizard levels to be a 9th level Mystic Theurge. Or maybe you had to hit 4th level MT; don't recall, really.
Or, frankly, something like what Miguel posited above (the ability to back out 4 levels of a base class to have nearly all Evangelist).
Anyhoo, people kept pushing the issue as "rules as written" no matter what Paizo staff told them, breaking the intent of the retraining rules. Eventually, Paizo decided to step in and issue an FAQ to end the constant arguments on the boards.
In PFS I don't think it was as prevalent due to the Prestige Point requirement for retraining, so we weren't seeing it as often as general groups.
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you can't retrain like that at all drogon... you need to read up.
This retraining does not allow you to reselect the feats your character gains at odd levels or the ability score increases your character gains every four levels (though you can retrain those options separately). If retraining a class level means you no longer qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other ability you have, you can't use that feat, prestige class, or ability until you meet the qualifications again. (You can still retrain that feat, prestige class, or other ability.)
like all things, you can't retrain your lvl 5 fighter lvl 6 hell knight into 6 levels of hellknight, because the hell knight did not qualify prior to that.
When he completes the training, he immediately loses all benefits from taking ranger level 5 (base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, Hit Dice, hit points, skill ranks, and class features), then gains 1 level in rogue, immediately gaining all the benefits of rogue level 3. Mark's character is now a ranger 4/rogue 3. This retraining did not change Mark's 7th-level feat.
note that you lose the benefits FIRST, then you get the new class AFTER. IE you lose your qualifications in that interim step.
When you retrain a class level, you lose all the benefits of the highest level you have in that class.
I suppose you could one at a time retrain at higher levels into the prestige classes etc, but that seems like alot of gold and prestige...
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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lantzkev, we might have known that. Other people didn't.
A link for reference: Level 6 Hellknight thread.
Another link for reference: What happened to retraining? thread
FAQs get issued for "frequently asked questions." It's pretty obvious that a frequently asked question was "Can I retrain a core class level into a prestige class level?" and the results of that answer were being abused.
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Examples:
5 levels of fighter until you qualify for Hellknight at 6th. Then retrain all your fighter levels so you are now a 6th level Hellknight.
3 levels of cleric and 3 levels of wizard qualify you for Mystic Theurge at 7th. At 3cleric/3wizard/3MT your levels of MT self-fulfill the prestige class requirements, so you can now retrain all your cleric and wizard levels to be a 9th level Mystic Theurge. Or maybe you had to hit 4th level MT; don't recall, really.
Are either of those really that broken? I guess I'm not seeing it as game breaking. Hellknight 9 and 10 are pretty good levels, but it does give up quite a bit too, not sure that its really stronger than fighter 5/Hellknight 5. And theres a resource expenditure too. Some games you may barely have 25 days of downtime in a campaign, though the money cost seems nominal(I double the cost in my home games). In pfs that's 25 pa, so that's a giant resource sink too...
And still, wouldn't an easier (and better) fix have been: You cannot retrain into prestige class levels unless all the prerequisites are met with base class levels or prestige classes that also abide by this rule? Seems more reasonable and less punishing on more established players.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Honestly, I do not know.
I'm going to assume that the people who design this game know a problem when they see one. Moreover, they know when it is necessary to fix one.
The saw a problem. They fixed it. I'm content with that knowledge and feel no need to analyze it to understand why.
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Whether it works out this way or not realistically, consider this:
A Prestige Class at level 1 that has prerequisites that makes the earliest entry (without the SLA shenanigans) around level 5, essentially is saying that its level 1 abilities should be roughly equal to a level 4 power from a regular class. And so on. So by the time you get 6th level in the PrC, that ability should be roughly equal to the level 10 ability from a regular class.
I'm not sure if this works out completely true, but that's the theory behind building a prestige class.
So early entry into a prestige class actually, theoretically, gives you abilities that your level wasn't mean to have yet, and this can be game breaking.
This doesn't reflect my opinion or how things play out in real-time play. Just the theory of building a PrC as SKR once posted.
This is likely the reason they said no to retraining base class levels into PrCs.
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This doesn't reflect my opinion or how things play out in real-time play. Just the theory of building a PrC as SKR once posted.
I have seen the video. I have never laughed so hard, face palmed so many times and cried in sorrow and frustration in a ten minute period before that. I'm pretty sure skr has never actually played pf.
