can you dispel magic a silence spell cast on unknown object

[Cuttler]

Got a situation yesterday where an opposing enemy cast a silence spell on a object and we were all within the area of effect of the spell. I wanted to cast a silent dispel magic to get rid of the silence. Problem was I did not know on which object or location the silence was cast upon

In the CRB (p.272)dispel magic it says that:

"You can use dispel magic to end one ongoing spell that has
been cast on a creature or object, to temporarily suppress
the magical abilities of a magic item, or to counter another
spellcaster’s spell....

Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of
the dispel magic spell....

...You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell
affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of
fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this
way...."

So the question was: since silence can be cast on a creature, object or place in space, do you need to know the location or object affected by the silence spell to be able to dispel it, or just casting dispel magic in the area will remove it?

For example, if silence was cast on a dagger or copper or any other unattended object in the room (a pot, a table , etc)do you need to locate the source affected by the silence spell to be able to dispel it?

thanks

[shadowkras]

You can find the source using detect magic.
But yes, you need to know the origin of the spell to actually dispell it, as it is specified as a targeted spell. If the effect is an area spell, that doesnt emanate from any object or creature (such as a obscuring mist or desecrate/consecrate), then you can dispel magic on the area instead.
Same goes for silence if it was cast in a point in space, which makes it so you cant move the spell area, it can be dispelled without actually targeting anything, just the area itself.

[Cuttler]

thanks...the targeted aspect regarding creature and object makes sense

the only think I'm not so sure is about when you cast it at the specific place in space(thus as an area spell). Technically, when you cast the spell , you are required to selected a point of origin. since the silence spell is an emanation spell, its effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell.

So I wonder if you could dispel magic any place in the area or you need to pinpoint the exact center of the emanation (the point of origin) and thus require to identify, locate first that said point of origin. If this isn't the case, you just select anyplace in the area and try dispelling it?

As a side note/question: from CRB (p. 215) A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creature, or object to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a coneshaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin).

So if I put a silence spell on a coin which I then put in a bag....nobody is affected until I remove it from the bag???

[LazarX]

If you can't target the object in question, your only option is an Area Dispel, which can be kind of random as to what it will take out.

[Hendelbolaf]

Area Dispel is only usable with Greater Dispel Magic.

Dispel Magic can only be used as a Targeted Dispel or a Counterspell.

To use it at as Targeted Dispel you do not need to know what is the target of the spell such as the coin or dagger in the case of Silence. You only need to direct it at the spell and know that you want to dispel the Silence.

"You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way."

Dispel Magic has changed a lot in Pathfinder from 3.5 D&D.

So, you do not need to know where the Silence is cast just the area that it is affecting.

[Cuttler]

well...as expected, there seems to be 2 interpretations. Personally, I think that having to target the source and not just guessing the area makes more senses...however, I understand Hendelbolaf's point of view. After all, it does say that the targeted spell could dispel a spell affecting an area. that seems to be RAW....

Hendelbolaf wrote:

So, you do not need to know where the Silence is cast just the area that it is affecting.

that I'm not so sure, as you don't really know the whole area affected by the spell, just a guess based on parts of the area that you know are affected (you cant speak, thus you know at least your square is affected by the silence spell)....

But then again, as an analogy, let's say you have a speaker playing music somewhere in the room (representing a sonic emanation)and you want to stop the speaker from making noise, then should we consider the dispel magic as an EMP pulse that if you discharge it within the area of effect of the speaker would then stop the source (even if you didn't know where is the speaker)??? That would appear to be in line with what you're suggesting....