
karossii |
I have a character concept I am trying to bring into Pathfinder. For a Kingmaker Game.
The key points of the character are his corpulence and gluttony, as well as his being anywhere from somewhat to severely greedy, and a proponent of ethical hedonism*. He will be trying to sway others into this way of thinking, and promoting it by building festhalls, alehouses, whore houses, gambling dens, etc.
[i]* "Ethical Hedonism" - Ethical hedonism is the idea that all people have the right to do everything in their power to achieve the greatest amount of pleasure possible to them. It is also the idea that every person's pleasure should far surpass their amount of pain. Ethical hedonism is said to have been started by a student of Socrates, Aristippus of Cyrene. He held the idea that pleasure is the highest good.[/b]
The complication is that he needs to fit in with a party that includes some lawful good characters, as well as neutral good and chaotic good. (I think all characters are one of the three good alignments).
Also, none of that has much of anything to do with class, on the whole. So I would like to find some way to incorporate one or more aspects of a class into the above.
I'd thought of a cleric, war priest, or oracle; founding temples to various appropriate deities - where each temple is more of a house of vice (a temple to cayden cailean would be an alehouse, a temple to calistria a whore house, etc.).
A Sin Mage could have his philosophies based in ethical hedonism, and just be a vocal proponent of them.
What other classes could readily incorporate that into and with their class features? How would they best be built?
What role(s) would you see as the best suited for this character in the overall leadership of the kingdom? How would the classes suggested affect that?

Orfamay Quest |
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I'm not really seeing the question -- that's like asking "what class would be best suited for a redhead?" I think you could get literally any class to fit.
Basically, you're talking about someone who does what he likes and likes what he does, and wants this to apply universally. This could be a paladin, or an anti-paladin, or anything else, depending upon what he liked to so.
A scholarly type who likes to sit in a tower and read -- could be a wizard.
A gym rat who really likes working out and sparring -- could be a fighter.
A mystic who really likes contemplating his navel -- could be a monk. (Of course, this kind of conflicts with the corpulence and gluttony,... but not with the hedonism part.)

Samasboy1 |

So the primary goals are to enjoy pleasure while avoiding pain. Avoiding pain seems likely to rule out melee classes. The focus on self also seems to lean more to Neutral or Chaotic Neutral. Lawful and Good alignments seem more focused on duties or beneficence to others.
Spellcasting definitely seems to be the way to go. You can conjure food, drink, servants, protectors, etc.
Summoner
Wizard, either conjurerer or maybe enchanter. A dark twist could be Necromancer. Sin Mage and Bloatmage does seem fitting.
Sorcerer (Oni bloodline mentions hedonism as a driving motivation)
Cleric of a pleasure deity
Oracle, possibly more than Cleric since you don't have to serve a deity's interests, only your own
Given your party is good, including LG, I would probably avoid the Necromancer. The blood drinking of the Bloatmage also seems unlikely to go over well.
So, Summoner, Sorcerer, Sin Mage Conjurer, Oracle, and Cleric would be my recommendations, in about that order. Probably CN, maybe N.

karossii |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not really seeing the question -- that's like asking "what class would be best suited for a redhead?" I think you could get literally any class to fit.
Basically, you're talking about someone who does what he likes and likes what he does, and wants this to apply universally. This could be a paladin, or an anti-paladin, or anything else, depending upon what he liked to so.
A scholarly type who likes to sit in a tower and read -- could be a wizard.
A gym rat who really likes working out and sparring -- could be a fighter.
A mystic who really likes contemplating his navel -- could be a monk. (Of course, this kind of conflicts with the corpulence and gluttony,... but not with the hedonism part.)
To a degree, you're right. Except, I did address that in my post. I don't want to play a redhead who happens to be a given class, I want to play a redhead where having red hair is in some way incorporated into and a part of the class. Thus, there are specific classes which would work better or worse - and thus my question to these forums! :)

karossii |
I think conjurer and summoner are great ideas, I hadn't thought of wizard outside of sin magic. And the Oni Bloodline does seem appropriate too!
To elaborate on some of the ideas for kingdom roles I have come up with; I think counselor or spymaster would be better roles, as an arcane user. A high priest could be interesting, and provide more of an excuse for building his 'temples' of vice in the kingdom.
Maybe even a theurge, blending oni-blooded sorcerer and oracle levels...
Still open for more ideas and suggestions!

Claxon |
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Sounds like a cleric of Cayden Cailean. Also, you must make him part of the Andriod race, and call him Hedonism Bot.

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So, Summoner, Sorcerer, Sin Mage Conjurer, Oracle, and Cleric would be my recommendations, in about that order. Probably CN, maybe N.
Well, the Ethical part argues for a Good alignment pretty strongly, though the Greed does maybe bring it back to Neutral. Either way, Chaotic is definitely the way to go.
And yeah, any class can do this.
Though I'd do it as an Inquisitor of Calistria (with the Conversion Inquisition) or a Bard if I wanted to do some stereotypically hedonistic stuff. Both are well equipped to convince others to go along with their hedonistic plans, after all.
Fitting in the corpulence and gluttony, a Thassilonian Sin Mage of Gluttony going into the Bloatmage prestige class would certainly fit...but the classes above could just as easily manage to be overweight as well.

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Orfamay Quest wrote:I'm not really seeing the question -- that's like asking "what class would be best suited for a redhead?" I think you could get literally any class to fit.This. Classes don't come with built-in personalities.
monk, paladin and antipaladin seem to,
and even beyond that, you're looking at the question backwards, it's not "what classes have this personality" it's a "what class would someone with this personality logically do as an expression of their beliefs"and in answer to the OP's question, I'd say a summoner or a bard would be first choice, next an oracle (heavens or nature mystery, worshiper of cayden cailean or calistria) a sorcerer/ninja arcane trickster ,
definitely a caster of some sort, probably a cha one at that
the summoner, as previously mentioned, conjured servants and f#%%buddies, and some for the caster's friends too.
the bard exists for the purpose to make himself and his friends happy, eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we may die, is his creed, embrace life dance for me and I'll play you a little tune
bards have healing spells, they have illusion spells, they have music, they even have spells that make instruments and alcohol

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Can I interest you in a more lawful approach to seeking out pleasure? Not only are paladins trustworthy partners, they foster the best in others and encourage greater spiritual and physical health in those around them. Which has the side benefit of increasing both the quantity and depth of pleasure in the future.
Consider it a sort of investment, if you must.

Thaddeus Meade |
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Is he only interested in maximizing his own pleasure, or everyones? If the latter, what about an Evangelist Cleric of Cayden Cailean with the Revelry subdomain. Kind of like Bluto in Animal House, adventuring both for the adreneline rush and to fund his massive Toga parties between adventures.
"They told me fat, drunk, and stupid was no way to go through life. They were wrong."

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It is clear that the class best suited for an ethical hedonist is aristocrat. It is also clear that an gluttonous and greedy ethical hedonist would probably be quite uninterested in mucking about trying to found a frontier colony in the nasty and brutish stolen lands.
Only if he is an Aristocrat or otherwise rich. You need money for proper hedonism, and adventuring is highly lucrative, if risky, and hedonism doesn't preclude courage...so if he's broke adventuring makes a lot of sense as a career choice.

Tacticslion |

Also, not a class, and technically buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut...
... since when is needing to have fun a "drawback", really...? :D
(Incidentally, the above flaw allows you to RP a genuinely good character... who needs to be greedy etc. - a flawed good character. I love it.)
Though Calistria might be the "most obvious" choice, as others have mentioned, Cayden Cailean might be a good fit, though so would Urgathoa terribly enough and... Zon-Kuthon (if you take a... very particular view of his portfolio).
Also, there's Arshea (though his/her devotion to physical beauty might be a bit hard to reconcile with your concept), or (as others have mentioned) Lymnieris (who would work well with Mikaze's suggestion of a paladin, actually), among others.
Perhaps a summoner (presumably humanoid eidolon, so long as consent is a thing) with leadership (masses of willing partners of all kinds) to grab some sort of access to constant/at will polymorph effects (from alter self on up), prestidigitation, endure elements, and polypurpose panacea.
I don't think you'd get much better than that in terms of maximum potential numbers of partners + long duration.
A sorcerer might be a good option if you wanted to get more magic (half-elf favored class bonus plus the Paragon Surge [using it to acquire Expanded Arcana]) nets you the most spells possible as a sorcerer).
Paladin (or possibly monk) if you wanted your partnerships (or at least yourself) to all be guaranteed "clean", though those tend to be very martial, and thus not very effete (which, to some extent, seems to be what you're going for). A cleric and maybe a druid or witch - I don't recall at present - might be able to do just as well at this or better by removing diseases and casting various restorations.
An oracle with clouded might become obsessed with other pleasures and ignore the classically physically beautiful appearance, and (ignoring patrons) allowing a kind of "personal pantheon" to be created with "divine support" for said view.
Alchemist for lots of drinking and... experimentation.
Bard if you want massive "sway" or "face" abilities that often bring people pleasure by their nature.
While fighters (as described by Valeros; and presumably any class) can be ethical hedonists (after a fashion), and rogues' and ninjas' sneak attack can be "fluffed" (ugh, pun) as "anatomical knowledge", they don't really seem ideal for your concept.
Barbarians, Gunslingers, Magi, and Rangers just seem... too intense. They are combat magic specialists... they don't do "nice things" to other people, as a class (though rangers have limited healing). Similarly, Inquisitors, though, of course, there are exceptions (hello, there, conversion or heresy inquisitions!).
Cavalier would be a humorous option, as noted, as would android for race.
Hope that helps...

Zodiac_Sheep |

I'll just throw out the Drunken Master archetype for the Monk. Lawful isn't exactly a typical alignment for a philosophy like that, but if you wanted to you could make it work. A true and stolid devotion towards hedonism sounds right up the Drunken Master's ally, doing his best to ensure his pleasure and the pleasure of others within a rigid set of rules, those rules being things like "not interfering in the business of others," and "making sure my fun is not at the behest of others." Not a traditional take on hedonism, but in some ways that makes it more fun.
If you were to go Chaotic Good (or Chaotic Neutral, but I feel like Good is more up this character's alley) I don't blame you. CG is my favorite alignment, and it took me a while to even get used to the idea of playing a Lawful character before I role played my Grey Warden from the Dragon Age: Origins video game as Lawful Neutral. I was stunned by the amount of flexibility that the character had in morality and methods. Anything was fair game if it helped the war; doing fair deeds for others is all well and good, but if it comes at the cost of even a moderate amount of support in the war, it was a cost too high.
I guess what I'm saying is you can afford to have flexibility in the character, so exploring avenues outside of what is "expected" (in this case, Chaotic Good) can provide even more flavor and role playing goodness to a character you're already looking forward to playing.

alchemicGenius |

actually, given that this character has a pretty strict philosophy, lawful is not hard to conceive at all for this, it just wouldn't be the type of lawful people are used to. You have a code on how you choose to live your life. you're an Ethical Hedonist, not just a hedonist.
The good alignment can also fit well here, too. Ethical hedonists can still find joy in volunteering for a good cause or giving to charity. Desna and Cayden Cailean both have philosophies that align with ethical hedonism; Desnans travel to far an distant lands and hold reveries under the stars because, to them, that is pleasurable and they enjoy doing it, and, well, there's not much explaining that needs to be done for the beer god.
As for classes... really, you could play anything. A barbarian's rage could easily be flavored as getting lost in the thrill of battle, a mage might use their magic to conjure up things that bring them pleasure, a rogue might find the thrill of a good heist exciting (although an ethical hedonist might make sure that the heist wouldn't result in a lot of pain). Hell, even a paladin would work. A paladin who truly finds pleasure in their work can still uphold the paladin's code while indulging in personal pleasure.

haruhiko88 |

Fighter... now hear me out. I just picked up a copy of Inner Sea Gods, if you are looking at something fun play a Fighter 5 (No archetypes needed)/Sentinel x. Specifically the Sentinel of Urgathoa, every day for her deific obedience you are required to gorge yourself until you feel sick on fine food, and one piece of rotten food. By level 11 with Fighter 5/Sentinel 6 and probably gloves of dueling or whatever they are called you will have Weapon Training (Heavy Blades) +4 and Symbolic Weapon +3. In essence a +7 to hit and damage with a scythe that is unholy for free, along with being able to cast a few spell like abilities, plus access to the potion glutton feat so swift action potions ftw.
Really simple build, easy enough to figure out how to hit really really hard with a scythe, and with Urgathoa as your deity hedonism is expected of you... in fact that's probably how you worship. After all the clerics have to beg and plead for power, you were chosen so why can't you do what you want?