Natural spell does what it says
It lets you fulfill the somatic and verbal components for spells while polymorphed so you can cast if needed
Ummm...if you're a animal without hands or a mouth (normally capable of producing speech) you can't use spells with material, verbal, or somatic components. So, it lets you cast spells when you wouldn't normally be able to.
Edit: Just noticed that technically Natural Spell only applies to Wild Shape. I guess the intention is to let it function and apply during the duration of Beast Shape.
Natural spell does what it says
It lets you fulfill the somatic and verbal components for spells while polymorphed so you can cast if needed
No, it lets you do that while wild shaped.
You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while using wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.
You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while using wild shape.
Emphasis mine.
This feat has no effect whatsoever on any transformation which isn't wild shape.
Wild shape IS beast shape
A.If we read it as you do then it has no point correct?
B.If we read it as someone just forgot that the feat said wild shape and not exactly said beast shape then it works correct
If we took a poll what percentage do you think would choose B?
Natural spell does what it says
It lets you fulfill the somatic and verbal components for spells while polymorphed so you can cast if needed
No, it lets you do that while wild shaped.
You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while using wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.
You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while using wild shape.
Emphasis mine.
This feat has no effect whatsoever on any transformation which isn't wild shape.
Wild shape IS beast shape
A.If we read it as you do then it has no point correct?
B.If we read it as someone just forgot that the feat said wild shape and not exactly said beast shape then it works correct
If we took a poll what percentage do you think would choose B?
No, it is NOT beast shape. It is a suernatural ability that lets you transform as if you were using the spell, but it is not the actual spell. If you actually use beastshape to transform then natural spell does not apply. That is why wild shape is called out. Otherwise it would say "wildshape or any spell which it emulates".
The point of mythical beast shape is that you can cast spells while polymorphed. Beast Shape is a sorcerer/wizard spell so using the normal version they can no longer cast spells after they have transformed.
The solution here is to just apply common sense and assume that the developers meant that non-druids can cast spells while using augmented mythic beast shape. Any other interpretation is just silly because Druids can't even learn the beast shape spell!
The point of mythical beast shape is that you can cast spells while polymorphed. Beast Shape is a sorcerer/wizard spell so using the normal version they can no longer cast spells after they have transformed.That would be a great thing, but it is not what Paizo actually wrote.
All augmented mythical beast shape gives you is the ability to act as though you have the Natural Spell feat.
But Natural Spell doesn't have any effect on you, because its effects apply only while using wild shape specifically. It's not just that you can't take the feat because of the prerequisite. If you made a druid/wizard, and took natural spell, it would work while using wild shape, but would still have no effect at all on transformations using wizard spells.
I think what they probably meant was:
During each casting of the spell, a number of times equal to your tier, you can act as though you had the natural spell feat for one round, with the mythic beast shape ability counting as using wild shape for purposes of that feat.
OK, I see what you mean now. Yeah that is is. It needs to be errata'd but I think most people can figure out the intent so I don't know if it will be high on the totem pole of future erratas, but I will FAQ it.
The solution here is to just apply common sense and assume that the developers meant that non-druids can cast spells while using augmented mythic beast shape. Any other interpretation is just silly because Druids can't even learn the beast shape spell!I mostly agree, but this has caused me to wonder:
Is it possible that Paizo's writers were under the impression that Natural Spell did work for other shapeshifters? Because if so, there's a kitsune bard in our party who would love that, and actually I have a wizard who might seriously consider it.
Some of Paizo's books are partially written by freelancers, and things get past editing. An entire archetype snuck by editing. :)
Sometimes people mentally autocorrect things like I just did, even though I know natural spell only works with wildshape.
No, it is NOT beast shape. It is a suernatural ability that lets you transform as if you were using the spell, but it is not the actual spell. If you actually use beastshape to transform then natural spell does not apply. That is why wild shape is called out. Otherwise it would say "wildshape or any spell which it emulates".Natural spell does what it says
It lets you fulfill the somatic and verbal components for spells while polymorphed so you can cast if needed
No, it lets you do that while wild shaped.
You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while using wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.
You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while using wild shape.
Emphasis mine.
This feat has no effect whatsoever on any transformation which isn't wild shape.
Wild shape IS beast shape
A.If we read it as you do then it has no point correct?
B.If we read it as someone just forgot that the feat said wild shape and not exactly said beast shape then it works correct
If we took a poll what percentage do you think would choose B?
Sorry I forgot I couldn't say anything that made sense unless I was perfectly clear that it wasn't RAW and instead was just me explaining how I see it.
In the case of mythic beast shape natural spell works...whoever wrote the damn thing probably forgot that it said it was for wildshape only or figured people would make the connection
By saying Wildshape IS beast shape I was using as simple of an explanation as possible...no reason to go crazy of over it
The point of mythical beast shape is that you can cast spells while polymorphed. Beast Shape is a sorcerer/wizard spell so using the normal version they can no longer cast spells after they have transformed.
The OPs point was that if this ^ was the case then as you pointed out it does nothing since you are not using wildshape...if however you read what I wrote beyond "wildshape IS beast shape" it makes sense
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This is one of those "use your brain" situations. The intent is embarrassingly obvious, so go with it.
The ability applies to the ability. It has no implications for any character unless that character casts augmented mythic beast shape.
I believe that in the discription for Wild Shape it says that it works like the Beast Shape spell except for the duration is longer.
The ability applies to the ability. It has no implications for any character unless that character casts augmented mythic beast shape.It has the implication that Paizo thinks there are circumstances under which Natural Spell would affect your ability to cast spells while under the effects of a transformation ability which isn't wild shape.
Sure. Those circumstances are "when you cast augmented mythic beast shape". There is no reason to believe any other situation allows it.
This might indicate, for instance, that they haven't actually checked the ability closely since importing the SRD way back when, and they just assumed it worked while shapechanged in general.
I'm pretty sure the question of Natural Spell while polymorph end in a manner other than wild shape has been brought up on this board before. Without searching, I'd be surprised if there were fewer than a dozen threads and at least one really long back-and-forth debate about it. Pretty sure the designers know what they're doing on this one.
I generally just allow Natural Spell with any polymorph effect, but it's definitely a house rule and not a "no, the is what the design team really meant" thing.
