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OK, I think it's about time we can badger Paizo for Campaign Setting line books on Cheliax and Taldor.
In case of Cheliax, it's one of the most oft-referenced, most visible, bad guy nations of the setting. Every five minutes or so, questions return as to how does Cheliax treat demons, how does Cheliax treat genderless kitsune Inquisitors of Arshea and how does Cheliax deal with stray kittens.* While the current 32pg volume is really nice, it totally doesn't do justice to the glorious nation under benelovent rule of Her Imperialix Majestrix.
In case of Taldor, all of the above AND the fact that "Taldor persecutes worship of Sarenrae" got retconned out of existence this month AND the fact that IIRC Taldor was a Josh J. Frost thing, and since I doubt he's ever going to resurface in the RPG industry, it's about time to pass stewardship of Taldor to somebody really awesome (Maybe Crystal? Or Owen K.C.S. now that's a slave to Cosmo? Heck, maybe Cosmo itself?) and have that person do their magic on Big T.
On side note, Andoran likely needs that book too, but since that's an U.S. expy, and everybody knows I despise 'murica with my infidel heart, I'm not going to shout that from rooftops. I'll leave that to TOZ or Beckett or some other fan of democracy, freedom and murderous lumber industries.
* - no, I really don't wanna know.
I agree that 64 page setting guides for Cheliax and Taldor are long overdue.
But I must have missed something… where does it say that "Taldor persecutes worship of Sarenrae" got retconned out of existence? Is this is PFS thing, or in some other product?
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Don't forget Qadira and needing to stress the matriarchal elements that got overlooked in some books(like Seekers of Secrets) and that controversial schism in the church of Sarenrae involving war, nationalism, and slavery!
(the Osirion book is REALLY good, can't help but hope the rest of original five get their big books eventually)
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I agree that 64 page setting guides for Cheliax and Taldor are long overdue.
But I must have missed something… where does it say that "Taldor persecutes worship of Sarenrae" got retconned out of existence? Is this is PFS thing, or in some other product?
Inner Sea Gods states that Taldor accepts worshippers and temples of all non-evil deities. JJ confirmed that it is indeed a retcon and Sarenrae is welcome in Taldor, while the matter of her militant dervish splinter sect will be addressed at some time in the future.
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I agree that 64 page setting guides for Cheliax and Taldor are long overdue.
They are, as is an AP set in Taldor, full of political intrigue, backstabbing, fighting for power, having secret meetings in dark alleys, discovering dirty family secrets of your rivals and using those to your advantage ... I'm eagerly awaiting such an adventure path and a new setting guide would make for a perfect addition.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm all for a new Taldor book, of course.
(And I am sad about the Saranae retcon. I'd rather see that be something like a proposal of the princess.* Or at least be something still done in the southern provinces.)
*PFS vague spoilers.
Yes I think it is great idea. Taldor, Cheliax, Andoran, and Qadira all need a 64 page book expansion (atleast 64 pages)..
I'll add to the list also...
Absalom (the old 3.5 book is so out of date maybe those could be a hard cover))
Kyonin (maybe JJ can finally fix some of those problems)
Five Kings Mountains (finally maybe a little Dwarf love)
Razmiran (I really just want to set campaign in that area)
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I'd love the Taldor and Andoran ones. Not really interested in Cheliax, personally.
Taldor I think really needs one the most, even before the Sarenrae thing, it's always been a little "ok, now what do I do with it", and different sources tend to present rather different views, sometimes contradictory. Early on, the theme of Taldor (land and faction) was that it was an extremely rich and divided nation, on a downward spiral but still in the game because of it's enormous wealth. Lately it seems to be that the wealth is nearly gone, (and has been for a long time but no one acknowledges it), and the country really has no power or pull, (or point).
Sometimes the country is presented as being the iconic civilization of humanity, where it's noble families grant patronage to worthy prodigies and are known for their charity and aid of the less fortunate, and others it's a wannabe Game of Thrones, with everyone just bickering about their own personal schemes and letting everything else go to hell.
Sometimes it's presented as having a lot of power from it's grand history and because so many people and nations owe Taldor favors of debt, and sometimes it's presented that Taldor is so weak and broken that no one else even cares to acknowledge it's even still a thing for the last century.
It kind of feels off topic to make other suggestions, but if not Mendev, (not worldwound, Mendev) and Lastwall.
I'd love the Taldor and Andoran ones. Not really interested in Cheliax, personally.
Taldor I think really needs one the most, even before the Sarenrae thing, it's always been a little "ok, now what do I do with it", and different sources tend to present rather different views, sometimes contradictory. Early on, the theme of Taldor (land and faction) was that it was an extremely rich and divided nation, on a downward spiral but still in the game because of it's enormous wealth. Lately it seems to be that the wealth is nearly gone, (and has been for a long time but no one acknowledges it), and the country really has no power or pull, (or point).
Sometimes the country is presented as being the iconic civilization of humanity, where it's noble families grant patronage to worthy prodigies and are known for their charity and aid of the less fortunate, and others it's a wannabe Game of Thrones, with everyone just bickering about their own personal schemes and letting everything else go to hell.
Sometimes it's presented as having a lot of power from it's grand history and because so many people and nations owe Taldor favors of debt, and sometimes it's presented that Taldor is so weak and broken that no one else even cares to acknowledge it's even still a thing for the last century.
Agreed. It's a country with great adventuring potential, and I currently am running The Dragon's Demand which is set therein, but I do find the political, economic, and socio-cultural context described for Taldor in various products as a bit contradictory and confusing.
Inner Sea Gods states that Taldor accepts worshippers and temples of all non-evil deities. JJ confirmed that it is indeed a retcon and Sarenrae is welcome in Taldor, while the matter of her militant dervish splinter sect will be addressed at some time in the future.I agree that 64 page setting guides for Cheliax and Taldor are long overdue.
But I must have missed something… where does it say that "Taldor persecutes worship of Sarenrae" got retconned out of existence? Is this is PFS thing, or in some other product?
Thanks for the info. Haven't got Inner Sea Gods yet. I thought the persecution of Sarenrae's faith was an interesting angle. IMC, the further one gets from Oppara and southern Taldor, the lesser the odds of active persecution. And of course, some folk in the south, especially those of Qadiran descent, might turn a blind eye to signs of her worship.
Taldor has gotten a lot of love recently with two of the new 64 p. modules set therein or partially therein and a novel in the novel line. I do feel that a new Taldor campaign book would be great, however, there are other areas like Absalom that I would love to see set out in greater detail first.
Cheliax has gotten a lot of attention due to Council of Thieves being an AP and Westcrown has gotten the short end as well.
Developer
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I do not disagree with the OP. In fact, I'd love to see more 64-page nation books in the Campaign Setting line, but there are only so many spots in the schedule where we can do them. Compared to books on general themes, like the "Revisted" and "Unleashed" titles, which are fairly modular and templated in their construction, regional gazetteer books are much more time intensive. They are easiest to develop when they're written by as few authors as possible (like 1 or 2), but it's hard to find the right author for such a book and who has the availability at just the time the book needs to be written. Further, we already have two such books that are pretty much mandatory each year to support the Adventure Path line.
So know that I (and several others here at Paizo) really want to see these nations explored further in 64-page Campaign Setting books, we just haven't found the right time or place for them in the schedule.
Perhaps asking James, Rob, and Adam for a Cheliax-, Taldor-, or Andoran-based Adventure Path will speed things along?
Or, you know, getting enough responses to this thread that we determine it'd be worth it to make a nation sourcebook that isn't directly tied to another dozen or so products released around the same time.
Hey Mark. As a chelaxian at heart, perhaps a compromise could be to do a module (the new big ones) in Cheliax and see with the sales if people have an interest to revisit the Cheliax nation with an eventual AP...
I would definitely love to see a new 64 page Cheliax book, and would most certainly buy one.
I also would like one for Geb, Nex, Kyonin, Qadira, and even though it has lots of support elsewhere, one for Varisia.
Hey Mark. As a chelaxian at heart, perhaps a compromise could be to do a module (the new big ones) in Cheliax and see with the sales if people have an interest to revisit the Cheliax nation with an eventual AP...
I like this.
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I'd much rather see more setting books, be they 64 page gazetteers (although I'd prefer them to be longer than that even) or more esoteric things like Inner Sea Gods than more crunchy rules expansions.
I do not disagree with the OP. In fact, I'd love to see more 64-page nation books in the Campaign Setting line, but there are only so many spots in the schedule where we can do them. Compared to books on general themes, like the "Revisted" and "Unleashed" titles, which are fairly modular and templated in their construction, regional gazetteer books are much more time intensive. They are easiest to develop when they're written by as few authors as possible (like 1 or 2), but it's hard to find the right author for such a book and who has the availability at just the time the book needs to be written. Further, we already have two such books that are pretty much mandatory each year to support the Adventure Path line.
So know that I (and several others here at Paizo) really want to see these nations explored further in 64-page Campaign Setting books, we just haven't found the right time or place for them in the schedule.
Perhaps asking James, Rob, and Adam for a Cheliax-, Taldor-, or Andoran-based Adventure Path will speed things along?
Or, you know, getting enough responses to this thread that we determine it'd be worth it to make a nation sourcebook that isn't directly tied to another dozen or so products released around the same time.
Well, then count me in for a more "conventional" AP set in theese regions. I really like the feel of those nations.
Absalom (the old 3.5 book is so out of date maybe those could be a hard cover)
How is out of date? The world is not really changing, is it?
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How is out of date? The world is not really changing, is it?
Not changing, just filling out. As details get filled in, some of the old books don't hold up quite as well as others.
There are some things that sounded like good ideas at the time that have to be changed and other places where it'd be really nice to explain connections to newer content. Hopefully I'm making sense :)
Cheers!
Landon
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I recently started playing a Taldan paladin of Sarenrae. It was only after (as in, the week after) playing Library of the Lion that I found out about the worship being banned.
I went through Faiths of Purity and Inner Sea World Guide looking for any references to that, and came up with nothing. As far as I can tell it was only in the old Taldor book.
I am... intrigued that it's been retconned. It'll make "my life" easier. I'll need to take a look at that. But if it's just quietly shuffled under the carpet, as if it was something odd that Paizo doesn't want to talk about, that would be a bit disappointing.
It's been at least two Stavians since the ban, so if it was just quietly re-allowed in-game, that'd be fine. Even if the Taldans were a bit embarassed about it. But flat-out OOC acting like it never happened at all is a bit weak I think.
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I also hope there'll be more material on Taldor in general. It's a nation with great story potential. I recently played Silent Tide, again as the Taldan paladin. It was great fun groaning about how embarassing all that was. Playing a Taldan paladin is a nice bittersweet experience. And the season 5 storyline about restoring glory through righteous crusading is perfect :)
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As for Cheliax: sometimes it seems as if the old Cheliax book is the source of all sorts of spells/feats/traits that have "finicky" mechanics at best, or smell of OP at worst. A new version might be an opportunity to do a bit of cleaning?
what is would like to see is a set of regional hardcovers..nuff said
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how about a 200+ page book called the Avistan inner sea coast.
contains stuff on Cheliax, Andoran and Taldor
I'd buy it.
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how about a 200+ page book called the Avistan inner sea coast.
contains stuff on Cheliax, Andoran and Taldor
O.O
Shut up and take my money!
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I'm with people on a new Taldor book as they feel the most in need of a new book to give them a unified theme in the current pathfinder scene especially considering how much the scene has changed since the first book came out and I would love to see someone incorporate all the new empyreal lords, archetypes, and other content that has come out.
That being said I'm really not feeling a new andoran or cheliax book quite yet (or at least before Taldor) since both of those nations still feel pretty well represented thematically and mechanically as new content and additions happen to them pretty regularly with more characters, items, archetypes, and modules coming out all the time to help expand them.
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In case of Taldor, all of the above AND the fact that "Taldor persecutes worship of Sarenrae" got retconned out of existence this month
Seriously? Boo. This ruins my best in-world joke.
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How about "revisited" and "unleashed" books about Taldor, Cheliax, Andor and Quadira?
Especially "unleashed" might fit two of those in some ways.
I would prefer more material on other regions though, like Tian Xia.
And not just the whole continent in one thing.
An AP in the kraken run country for example would be super awesome!!!
Also there needs to be the Kitsune Player Companion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's unfortunate that the Sarenrae law got lifted in Inner Sea Gods and wasn't replaced with anything just as interesting. The ban, which was made for arguably justifiable reasons, made for a more grey and more interesting Golarion.
It's a shame that Golarion became more black-and-white with that retcon.
That being said, a 64-page Taldor book, full of seeds for political intrigue and swashbuckling adventures from a new and motivated author and steward of the setting, would make my gaming year.
Heck, it would be the highlight of all of Pathfinder for me.
-Matt
Personally I don't think any of these suggestions are worth the effort. They at least have had some coverage. Better to go to new places like Alkenstar or my wish for a Brevoy book given the popularity of the A Song of Ice and Fire series.
sold sold and sold
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As an unabashed Taldor fan, I'd definitely buy a sourcebook, but the author would need to scour all of the Taldan references to get some inconsistencies resolved and provide some really good fluff with a bit of crunch.
What I'd like to see in the sourcebook.
1. Major Noble Houses of Taldor (20 or so) - in an old dragon magazine (late 80's) which I still have there was something like this for D&D, it had a page with coat of arms and such...really great.
2. A new map of Cassomir - really the current one is lacking.
3. Some more details on the various Armies of Exploration and their exploits. Lost treasures and whatnot.
4. The Imperial Regalia of Taldor - when did they lose the originals? during an interregnum - the crown and scepter are rumored to have been enchanted by Aroden himself.
5. At the Forefront - A description of the aims and current exploits of notable Taldans that are attempting to revive and restore Taldor to its former imperial glory, such as the Imperial Princess Eutropia, and her political battles with her distant cousin, the Archduke Vorath.
how about a 200+ page book called the Avistan inner sea coast.
contains stuff on Cheliax, Andoran and Taldor
O.O
Shut up and take my money!
I'd buy the PDF.
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As an unabashed Taldor fan, I'd definitely buy a sourcebook, but the author would need to scour all of the Taldan references to get some inconsistencies resolved and provide some really good fluff with a bit of crunch.
What I'd like to see in the sourcebook.
1. Major Noble Houses of Taldor (20 or so) - in an old dragon magazine (late 80's) which I still have there was something like this for D&D, it had a page with coat of arms and such...really great.
2. A new map of Cassomir - really the current one is lacking.
3. Some more details on the various Armies of Exploration and their exploits. Lost treasures and whatnot.
4. The Imperial Regalia of Taldor - when did they lose the originals? during an interregnum - the crown and scepter are rumored to have been enchanted by Aroden himself.
5. At the Forefront - A description of the aims and current exploits of notable Taldans that are attempting to revive and restore Taldor to its former imperial glory, such as the Imperial Princess Eutropia, and her political battles with her distant cousin, the Archduke Vorath.
As another unabashed Taldor fan, I second all of this!
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As another unabashed Taldor fan, I second all of this!As an unabashed Taldor fan, I'd definitely buy a sourcebook, but the author would need to scour all of the Taldan references to get some inconsistencies resolved and provide some really good fluff with a bit of crunch.
What I'd like to see in the sourcebook.
1. Major Noble Houses of Taldor (20 or so) - in an old dragon magazine (late 80's) which I still have there was something like this for D&D, it had a page with coat of arms and such...really great.
2. A new map of Cassomir - really the current one is lacking.
3. Some more details on the various Armies of Exploration and their exploits. Lost treasures and whatnot.
4. The Imperial Regalia of Taldor - when did they lose the originals? during an interregnum - the crown and scepter are rumored to have been enchanted by Aroden himself.
5. At the Forefront - A description of the aims and current exploits of notable Taldans that are attempting to revive and restore Taldor to its former imperial glory, such as the Imperial Princess Eutropia, and her political battles with her distant cousin, the Archduke Vorath.
Thirded!