i know this has been beaten to death on these forums time and again, but it seems to me that the guides arn't as comprehensive on this as they could be.
So I, having never actually built a Magus to nova before, want to know exactly what i need to create the most powerful and frequent nova a magus can do.
i know the basics:
-magical lineage - Shocking Grasp
-Shocking Grasp on spell list
-Intensified Spell
-Maximize Spell
-Spell Perfection
-Pearls of Power for repeats
-Keen weapon for a high crit chance for x2 spell damage
but what about other gear/feats that compliment or assist in the build? or is this seriously just a secondary "throw it in for the big hits" add on for another build focus?
Waying spell hunter?
I would use my arcane pool or a spell to provide the keen and instead have a spell storing blade. Quicken spell and or quicken arcana are on their. If your GM lets a tail hold a metamagic rod then a tiefling with a tail and a rod of quicken is a good choice.
If you want to be really cheesy, take merciful spell as well, so you only knock out your opponents and buy a wyroot club so you can coup de grace then all, getting back your arcane pool with the automatic critical.
hmm, so if i were to have wayang spellhunter and magical lineage both for shocking grasp, would an intensified shocking grasp now be cast as a cantrip? effectively giving me infinite casts because i would be preparing it in a 0-level slot?
No, read the trait description, it specifically excludes that possibility.
Elemental spell and intensify are more than enough for the bulk of your progression. Maximize and quicken should be added later on to pair with spell perfection. Don't plan on exceeding a first level spot for your main spell in my opinion, because you can load up on pearls of power (1st level) and just keep yourself pumping out damage all day like that. At level 11 I have 15 pearls of power (1st) and I can sustain spell combat every round for extended periods. Make sure you get both spell penetration feats.
A ring of Wizardry (1) isn't out of the question late game.
Spellstoring weapon, and I would second the dip into crossblooded sorcerer Orc/draconic. Dip into admixture wizard is probably also a good idea.
The nova way to go is to precharge a shocking grasp and hold it, have one in you spell storing weapon. Roll into combat and make your regular melee attack first which will drop the held charge plus the one stored in the weapon, then using spell combat cast shocking grasp again.
3 times in one round. Much pain.
No, read the trait description, it specifically excludes that possibility.
actually, i googled wayang spellhunter and ckicked the first link that went to the d20srd page. after reading what you said i realized that i had actually just read the trait "Metamagic Master". does someone have a link to the trait Wayang Spellhunter?
and would magical lineage and metamagic master allow a first level spell to be prepared as a cantrip?
No, you can never reduce the spell level lower than the original spell level. There is an FAQ on that. D20pfsrd calls wayang spell hunter "meta magic master" because wayang is part of Golorian. Archives of Nethys May gave it listed under the original name but what you saw us the actual text. You can tell if you go back to the page and look at the URL.
relevant text to this:
Wayang Spellhunter:
Choose a spell of 3rd level or below. When you use the chosen spell with a metamagic feat, it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would (does not reduce actual spell level.)
Metamagic Master:
Choose a spell of 3rd level or below. When you use the chosen spell with a metamagic feat, it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would.
Magical Lineage:
Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell that add at least 1 level to the spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level.
as far as i can tell, nothing in any of these is stopping someone from preparing a level one spell modified by a metamagic +1 effect in a 0-level spell slot.
if the "does not reduce actual spell level" part in WSH means that it's not altering which spell slot it goes into, then its effectively doing nothing at all because you'd still have to prepare it in a level 2 slot, even though the entire purpose to change the slot you prepare it in down by one...i believe when it says "does not reduce actual spell level" it means that although it is prepared in a 1-level spell slot, it is still a 2-level spell because it has been made so via metamagic.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/wayang-spellhunter-minata
You're not looking hard enough, the FAQs for relevant abilities are often cited at d20pfsrd. They need to remove proprietary names for things on that site for legal reasons, and wayang is apparently owned by paizo.
It specifically states you never lower a spell level, no matter what.
No, you can never reduce the spell level lower than the original spell level. There is an FAQ on that. D20pfsrd calls wayang spell hunter "meta magic master" because wayang is part of Golorian. Archives of Nethys May gave it listed under the original name but what you saw us the actual text. You can tell if you go back to the page and look at the URL.
got a link to this FAQ? i know there are many ways you can reduce a spell level lower than its original level. for instance, casting a spell with an intentionally lower level for DCs/spell resistance purposes, etc. you can do so at will with no cost if you, for example, casting a harmful aoe spell near an ally and know they have SR that will be high enough to prevent spell effect if you reduce it, so you cast it lower for this purpose. this doesn't change the spell slot you prepared the spell in, but it does change its level when it is cast.
also simply being a different type of class reduces the level of a spell in some cases. like being a magus/summoner and copying your summoner spells into magus spellbook now gives you a spell that is on the magus spell list at a level he normally gets it 2 higher. perfect example being haste going from level 3 to level 2 if he scribes it into his magus book.
Edit: note that getting access to a spell early or acquiring from another list is not the same as modifying it down from meta magic cheapeners. Also, I can't think of a single example (read: there isn't one) of a time where you could "choose" to cast fireball from a second level slot because you "wanted" to lower the DC.
Edit again: SR has nothing to do with spell level.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
i know this has been beaten to death on these forums time and again, but it seems to me that the guides arn't as comprehensive on this as they could be.
So I, having never actually built a Magus to nova before, want to know exactly what i need to create the most powerful and frequent nova a magus can do.
i know the basics:
-magical lineage - Shocking Grasp
-Shocking Grasp on spell list
-Intensified Spell
-Maximize Spell
-Spell Perfection
-Pearls of Power for repeats
-Keen weapon for a high crit chance for x2 spell damagebut what about other gear/feats that compliment or assist in the build? or is this seriously just a secondary "throw it in for the big hits" add on for another build focus?
Things to look at include:
Feat Chain A: Heighten Spell (a metamagic which helps in qualifying for Perfection at level 15) and Preferred Spell at 5th level, selecting Shocking Grasp. This means you can now burn any spell slot 1st level or above to do a 5d6 shocking grasp.With Magical Lineage SG you can tack Intensified Spell onto it and for any spell slot do 10d6 instead, which is better.
This chain is typically better than the other because it does not affect the casting time of your spell meaning that you can still use it in conjunction with Spell Combat.
Feat Chain B: Spell Focus Evocation; Spell Specialization Shocking Grasp; Greater Spell Specialization
Overall this feat chain seems a lot worse if all you plan on doing is novas with Shocking Grasp, but in reality you get a lot more out of it. Magi get access to some powerful evocation spells, namely Fireball, and having Spell Focus Evocation is good when throwing out blast spells like Fireball.
Considering that you don't have to prepare your Shocking Grasps, you can prepare your blast spells, and convert them into Shocking Grasps as needed. Spell Specialization boosts your damage on Shocking Grasp at every level up until 9th level when it caps out at 10d6, past that it still increases your CL meaning that it does basically the same thing as Spell Penetration for Shocking Grasp.
The main problems with this feat chain are that it doesn't include any metamagics, and you pretty much can only spontaneously use Shocking Grasp when you Quicken it which is a waste.
Using feat chain A, you really should only need Magical Lineage or Wayang Spell Hunter, not both. When using Spell Combat, you simply apply Intensified to the spell naturally, and Empower for free. You really don't need to add more to it than that, unless you are specifically fighting something that is immune/resistant to electricity, in which case you need Elemental Spell, and it becomes any second level spell slot or higher that you need to use. Considering that Elemental Spell is not really necessary, and you already can cap out your damage without it, I wouldn't say you need to be able to apply another metamagic onto the spell every time you cast it and you should be fine with just Magical Lineage or Wayang Spell Hunter, not both.
Your other trait should be on something better tbh. Heirloom Weapon on a scimitar to get an extra +1 on attacks, then cast Masterwork Transformation on it later is essentially equal to an extra weapon focus feat, which is hard to beat at 1st level, and still important later on.
I am a fan of taking Wayang Spell Hunter and Arcane Temper, for +1 Initiative and +1 Concentration checks, but Magical Lineage and Reactionary are also solid choices.
Remember that you really only wanna burn 1st level spells for Shocking Grasp, so you can get them back using Spell Recall for only 1 Arcane Pool point. It turns your arcane pool into 1.5(10d6) bursts that you can get back every turn you don't decide you need to do it twice by using a quickened one. Extra Arcane Pool becomes Extra Shocking Grasps using this strategy.
Spell Blending is an awesome Arcana that will let you pick up on some very useful utility spells, like Rope Trick. Tricks like having utility spells prepared for the day, but being able to use those spells on Shocking Grasps anyway just to get them back later on in the day when you need them using your arcane pool is really one of the most efficient ways to run a nova magus.
I would also say make sure to pick up Arcane Accuracy and later on Accurate Strikes, since they are both pretty useful for landing novas.
Improved Critical is a good feat to pick up at later levels when your arcane pool gives you enough bonuses to where you want to spend +'s on things other than keen. Don't bother investing in a keen weapon.
2. You can't "copy" a summoner spell into your magus spellbook. Even if it's the same spell by name, it has to be learned separately. There is no interaction between spell acquisition by two different classes.
under "arcane Magical Writing" in the CRB:
Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook
Once a wizard understands a new spell, he can record it into his spellbook.
Time: The process takes 1 hour per spell level. Cantrips (0 levels spells) take 30 minutes to record.
Space in the Spellbook: A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has 100 pages.
Materials and Costs: The cost for writing a new spell into a spellbook depends on the level of the spell, as noted on Table: Spell Level and Writing Costs. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for spells he gains for free at each new level.
so you are telling me that a wizard 6/summoner 5 doesn't understand the spell 'Haste' that he learned via summoner levels and therefore cannot add it to his wizard spellbook?
and as for the fireball thing: i did specifically state that the spell does not get prepared in a lower spell slot, but it does get CAST AS a lower level for its effect with regards to SR. it counts as a lower level for the purpose of overcoming SR at the casters will. normally a caster would never do this, but sometimes (like in the original example i gave) it is nessesarry to do so in order to prevent collateral damage.
on another, yet equally relevant note: isn't there a way to take shocking grasp beyond 10d6? i thought i remembered something about empowered spell and intensified spell stacking a specific way, but i never understood how that worked. what about other ways to double/increase the damage aside from crits that would stack with crits?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
on another, yet equally relevant note: isn't there a way to take shocking grasp beyond 10d6? i thought i remembered something about empowered spell and intensified spell stacking a specific way, but i never understood how that worked. what about other ways to double/increase the damage aside from crits that would stack with crits?
When applying both Intensified and Empowered, you multiply the result of 10d6 by 1.5, which maths out the same as 15d6.