Adjusting the Summoner Spell List


Homebrew and House Rules

Liberty's Edge

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I know the Summoner Spell List is a major point of contention for the class. While some complain that it gives the summoner spells like haste one level before a wizard gets it, the bigger issue is that spells like baleful polymorph or teleport can be made into wands.

So, I redid the summoner spell list, placing the various spells at the appropriate spell level. I also moved restore eidolon to 4th Level, and created a greater restore eidolon spell and placed it in the 6th Level list (essentially, the rejuvinate spells are odd-levels and the restore spells are even-levels).

Anyone see any issues with the adjusted lists? Any spells that you can think of that could be added?

0-Level Spells:
acid splash, arcane mark, daze, detect magic, guidance, light, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, read magic, resistance

1st Level Spells:
alarm, ant haul*, corrosive touch**, endure elements, enlarge person, expeditious retreat, feather fall, grease, icicle dagger**, identify, jump, mage armor, magic fang, magic mouth, mount, protection from evil/good/chaos/law, ray of sickening**, reduce person, rejuvenate eidolon (lesser)*, shield, summon minor monster**, summon monster I, unfetter*, unseen servant, ventriloquism

2nd Level Spells:
alter self, barkskin, bear's endurance, blur, bull's strength, cat's grace, create pit*, cushioning bands**, daze monster, detect thoughts, eagle's splendor, evolution surge (lesser)*, fox's cunning, glide*, glitterdust, invisibility, levitate, misdirection, owl's wisdom, protection from arrows, resist energy, restore eidolon (lesser)**, spider climb, summon eidolon*, summon monster II, summon swarm, wind wall, web shelter**

3rd Level Spells:
agonize**, aqueous orb*, charm monster, control summoned creature**, devolution*, dispel magic, displacement, evolution surge*, fly, haste, heroism, mad monkeys**, magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law, magic fang (greater), marionette possession**, nondetection, phantom steed, protection from energy, rage, rain of frogs**, rejuvenate eidolon*, see invisibility, seek thoughts*, slow, spiked pit*, summon monster III, tongues, water breathing

4th Level Spells:
acid pit*, black tentacles, daze (mass)**, dimension door, dimensional anchor, dismissal, enlarge person (mass), evolution surge (greater)*, fire shield, hold monster, invisibility (greater), locate creature, minor creation, purified calling*, reduce person (mass), restore eidolon**, sending, stoneskin, summon monster IV, transmogrify*, vitriolic mist**, wall of fire, wall of ice

5th Level Spells:
baleful polymorph, conjure black pudding**, contact other plane, create demiplane (lesser)**, dispel magic (greater), heroism (greater), hungry pit*, ice crystal teleport**, insect plague, mage's faithful hound, magic jar, major creation, overland flight, planar adaptation*, planar binding (lesser), plane shift, rejuvenate eidolon (greater)*, summon monster V, teleport, true seeing, wall of stone

6th Level Spells:
banishment, bear's endurance (mass), bull's strength (mass), cat's grace (mass), charm monster (mass), create demiplane**, eagle aerie**, eagle's splendor (mass), fox's cunning (mass), owl's wisdom (mass), planar adaptation (mass)*, planar binding, repulsion, restore eidolon (greater), summon monster VI, wall of iron

Restore Eidolon, Greater:

School conjuration (healing); Level summoner 6
Casting Time 1 minute
Components V, S, M (diamond dust worth 5,000 gp)
Range touch
Target eidolon touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

This spell functions as greater restoration, except it only affects an eidolon.

EDIT: Spells marked with * are found in the APG. Spells marked with ** are found in UM.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

There are some specific effects summoners should get at the same level as wizards: planar binding and its derivatives. This is because they directly go to the summoner's specialty - planar minion creatures, not something as broad as 'conjuration'. Contrast teleport or plane shift, which are merely conjuration and in the case of plane shift they get at a lower spell level than wizards anyway.

I think the right way to handle that, though, is the same way Summon Monster was handled: a class feature. Possibly an archetype class feature.

Like the summon monster spells, they should remain on the class list, even though no one will take them as a spell known, to make sure that scrolls/staves remain usable.

Liberty's Edge

So, you recommend leaving lesser planar binding, planar binding, and greater planar binding at 4th, 5th, and 6th levels respectively?

I get what you're saying about making it a class feature, but even with an archetype, you're still stuck with dealing with the irregularities of the spell list. There are a number of spells on the list that I think certainly fit the flavor of what a summoner should be able to deal with: dimensional lock and maze, for example. But if you make an exception for those, you could certainly justify most of the others, and then at that point you're back at square one.

So, with that in mind, do you think it's best to allow exceptions for conjuration (calling) and conjuration (summoning) spells, while not granting exceptions for spell levels for the remaining spells?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I think those spells belong where you have put them.

I also think there should be some way for a summoner to get access to them sooner. Perhaps taking a 'Binder' archetype that looses the summon monster SLA.

Liberty's Edge

Hmmm...ok, just to make sure I'm clear what you're saying, the spell list I posted in the first post is generally ok to go.

I like the idea of an archetype. Though, there are only 3 binding spells compared to the 9 SM plus gate to trade out. So the question would be what else to give it to balance things out.

I need to head to bed for an early morning. I'll give it more thought and post tomorrow afternoon.

Liberty's Edge

Ok, what about something along the lines of Summon Monster SLA being replaced with "Binding Surges". When a living creature dies within 30 feet of the summoner, he can use one Binding Surge as an immediate action to bind a portion of that soul's energy to the summoner giving that summoner a +1 bonus to attack and damage on any subsequent attack of the summoner's choosing (melee, ranged, ray, touch, natural weapon, etc). The summoner may instead expend two surges to allow the bonus to be applied to all attacks made in any one round of the player's choosing. Once the attack is made, the soul's energy is released. At the end of one hour, if the soul's energy hasn't been used, it is released and a new surge will have to be used. At 4th level (and every four levels thereafter) the bonus increases by +1 to a maximum of +5 at 16th level.

The summoner could use a surge to cast the respective planar binding spell as a SLA (5, 10, and 15th levels, perhaps?).

At some point in the progression, I imagine the summoner would be able to share this bonus with his eidolon (either whole, or in part).

I also imagine that at some level, if the creature slain had an energy or alignment subtype, the summoner could expend another surge to either gain an extra 1d6 damage of that subtype or perhaps allows the summoner to overcome any DR that a creature with that subtype might have. Perhaps both but granted at different levels.

Might be worth looking at reducing the effectiveness of the eidolon for this, too: summoner level halved (min 1) or something like that.

Well, that's my first stab at it, anyways.

Sovereign Court

I agree that it's okay for a summoner to be as good as a wizard (not worse, maybe even 1 level better if that rounds nicely) at summoning and calling monsters.

Also, they should get the required abjurations (dimensional anchor and magic circle against X) at a level no later than lesser planar binding.

But they have no business being better at stuff like Haste. Just because it'd be useful to them is no reason to give it too cheaply.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

HangarFlying wrote:
I like the idea of an archetype. Though, there are only 3 binding spells compared to the 9 SM plus gate to trade out. So the question would be what else to give it to balance things out.

It's not the quantity, its the effect. A bigger question is what do they get to do at low levels while they wait for planar binding?

And in what substantial ways would having access to planar binding be better or worse than extending the duration of their existing summon monster SLA?


Impressive work HangarFlying - thank you. With a few Eidolon restrictions, I could see actually allowing this summoner.


No issue with baleful polymorph being in a wand, the DC would be to low to be of any value. Teleportation in wands might be an issue if not for the fact that by the time a summoner can cast teleport the party could probably afford a staff with teleport.

*And the DM can keep NPC summoners with craft wand rare enough that their products aren't available on the market.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

It's not about wands. It's about 'X level spell' being a consistent concept.

Sovereign Court

Maybe the PFS approach to determining spell level in magic items is the right one; use the wizard/cleric/druid/witch lists first, only use partial caster lists if it's not on those. That gets rid of these shenanigans.


Ross Byers wrote:
It's not about wands. It's about 'X level spell' being a consistent concept.

Except its NEVER been a consistent concept,

Animate Dead, 3rd level cleric, 4th level wizard/sorcerer.

Look at bards they get plenty of spells at a lower spell level then sorcerers/wizards. Heroism/Greater Heroism, Charm Monster
Greater Dispelling and Scrying,[hell this spell comes in 3rd, 4th and 5th level depending on class.). Druids get cure spells at different levels, they get stoneskin at 5th instead of 4th. The list goes on.

So unless your going to adjust every class spell list in existence. Why bother with summoners?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Differences in spell level are allowed when the idea is that a class is just better at something than another. That is, clerics are better as raising the dead than necromancers. Bards are better charmers than wizards. Clerics are better at healing than druids. Some of this is necessary to make the different spellcasting classes, well, different.

But why is a summoner so much better at controlling the flow of time that he gets haste as a second level spell? The summoner list is full of purely mechanical adjustments that seem to exist to make them more viable as a primary arcane caster. That is, to let them keep up with a wizard, while still having an Eidolon, more hit points, and a better BAB. That's wrong.

Would you give a magus fireball and lightning bolt as second level spells? Or do you compare those spells next to acid arrow and scorching ray and keep them at 3rd?

Liberty's Edge

Sooooooo...does my archetype idea seem viable?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

HangarFlying wrote:
Sooooooo...does my archetype idea seem viable?

Perhaps. In discussing it, though, I've convinced myself that a summoner has limited need to be hooked into the planar binding minigame.


Ross Byers wrote:

Differences in spell level are allowed when the idea is that a class is just better at something than another. That is, clerics are better as raising the dead than necromancers. Bards are better charmers than wizards. Clerics are better at healing than druids. Some of this is necessary to make the different spellcasting classes, well, different.

But why is a summoner so much better at controlling the flow of time that he gets haste as a second level spell? The summoner list is full of purely mechanical adjustments that seem to exist to make them more viable as a primary arcane caster. That is, to let them keep up with a wizard, while still having an Eidolon, more hit points, and a better BAB. That's wrong.

Haste isn't about controlling the flow if time, your transmuting a creature to make them move and attack faster. In earlier editions it was even described as speed up the metabolic rate. Mutating your summons sounds perfectly in line with the summoner class. They're good at conjuration and transmutation

Grand Lodge

HangarFlying wrote:

I know the Summoner Spell List is a major point of contention for the class. While some complain that it gives the summoner spells like haste one level before a wizard gets it, the bigger issue is that spells like baleful polymorph or teleport can be made into wands.

It's not an issue to me at all. As a GM, I simply rule that these kinds of wands are not available. as those spells need to be treated level wise as on their main lists.

Sovereign Court

Yeah, I remember when getting Hasted aged you a year. Oof!


I miss the aging effects on occasion. Those paired with ghosts and botched youth potions could end your adventuring career really quick.

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