Barbarian: To trip or not to trip, that is the question.


Advice

Grand Lodge

Ok so I'm playing a level 1 human barbarian, right now I have combat expertise and improved trip. I'm smashing face with a greatsword for almost 20 dmg, and haven't tripped anything yet because charging it and killing it is easier. I know this will be harder to do at higher levels (until greater beast totem kicks in). My question is should I swap them out for power attack and furious focus for even more damage or continue on with the trip build?

Rage powers are cool, but effective tripping requires at least 4 feats, which I am starved for. I would need combat expertise, improved trip, greater trip, and combat reflexes. With most of my points going toward STR and CON, plus the 13 int required there isn't much room for more than 12 DEX so maximizing combat reflexes would require gold. And no bonuses to damage from power attack until 5th level.

Should I just drop the trip thing and go for power attack at the beginning, and drop my INT to 10-12 for more face smashing? I'm leaning toward that direction but wanted to know if anyone has built an effective tripper barbarian.


Swap them out ASAFP. Power Attack will be a huge damage increase, it's borderline mandatory for any full BAB melee character. Furious Focus is good too, and leads into Dreadful Carnage if you want to make an Intimidate build (you may want to take Intimidating Prowess if you're going that route).

Trip is fraught with all sorts of problems. It's very feat-intensive - Improved Trip and Greater Trip used to be one feat, it was split into two for reasons nobody can begin to guess at. Combat Expertise is a feat and ability score tax that will seldom be used, especially by a Barbarian.

Then there's the problem of all the things it doesn't work on. Anything with more than two legs is difficult to trip. Anything with no legs cannot be tripped. Anything that flies cannot be tripped. Anything more than two size categories larger than you cannot be tripped. And if anything is common in mid-high level Pathfinder, it is huge and/or flying enemies.

As you said yourself, it's more efficient to just burn down a target's hit points rather than trip it. Like many such "status effect" abilities, it's a waste of time against minor enemies (you could just kill them), and against major enemies (it's not likely to work).


Strength Surge and a way to Rage Cycle(Oracle or Horizonwalker dip, Cord of Stubborn Resolve, that one Ioun Stone) can make you a highly sucessfull Tripper.
However the feat tax is a bit hard for a barbarian and until your build is complete it will take a long time. At that Point you might primarily run into flying enemies. If you still wanna do a Tripper that pick up Power Attack first before going for the Trip Chain. You can deal enough damage with Power Attack alone.

One simple way to still be a situational Tripper would be carrying a Reach weapon and picking Strength Surge. You can avoid AoOs via Reach and still have an insanely high CMB via Strength Surge.


Correction to my post (since I'm past the time limit on edits), you cannot trip anything more than one size category larger than you.


Do you particularly even need combat expertise and improved trip? Barbarians get rage powers that can solve that problem.

We all know about strength surge, and it is fairly obvious to use for the large bonuses. But more immediately important is the knockdown rage power. With strength surge covering the bonuses, and this covering the part where you do not draw attacks of opportunity (with the added effect of still causing damage), why do you even need the feats?

Also, I'm not entirely familiar with this idea (rarely use maneuver builds), so bear with me: since little to nothing in the early levels has reach, couldn't you pick up a polearm with the trip property and still trip without fear, even without any feats or rage powers that stop you from drawing AoO's? I mean, assuming you aren't doing it while some other kobold is nipping at your heels, I assume that your target cannot use an AoO if he can't reach you.

Maybe go the power attack/furious focus route (and keep the trip option open with the polearm idea), pick up the rage powers (so you should be fine by level 3 or 4), and then grab the trip related feats later to help keep things boosted/keep the option open outside of rage or after you did your 1/rage stuff.

EDIT: also, Athaleon, isn't enlarge an option for expanding one's abilities with that? It is a level 1 spell, so by the time huge enemies start being a problem, the party spell casters could easily just drop that as a general buff in most fights(might be particularly nice if he goes with the polearm idea and grabs combat reflexes). It is a good tactic for a maneuver build particularly, since they get a +2 to their checks due to size bonus and the strength increase. That is...almost nothing compared to strength surge after a few levels, but on par with improved trip, so it is something at least.

Silver Crusade

@OP Pathfinder is a team game. As a character capable of dealing out big damage you should probably focus on that. Leave the tripping to the e.g. archaeologist Bard with a whip, who feeds you extra damage by giving you an AoO on every tripped foe. Power attack will be a large damage increase from 1st level on. Furious Focus will be a good choice around levels 4 or 8. There are some other excellent 1st level options, too.

Speaking of AoOs, you might consider carrying a polearm in addition to your Greatsword. The greatsword hits a bit harder, but the polearm will occasionally give you extra attacks in the form of AoOs. When you hit for 20+ damage the occasional extra attack is often worth more than an extra +2 on damage. Start out holding the polearm. Drop the polearm and draw the greatsword, should the tactical situation call for it. If a move action is also involved you can do this swap for free. Perhaps try several options and see what works best for you, since you are proficient in all martial weapons.


If you're grabbing a Reach weapon, see if you can find one that does both Bashing and Piercing damage.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Barbarian: To trip or not to trip, that is the question. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.