Dealing with presumptuous players?

[Tinalles]

My group is in the process of recruiting a new player. Two of the existing players -- lets call them Kelda and Tom -- suggested a candidate (whom we'll call Jan). Jan has no previous experience with role-playing. I agreed to meet with her to discuss the game, answer any questions she might have, and perhaps start building a character.

The day of the meeting, Kelda introduced me, and casually remarked that Tom had helped Jan make a character, and that it was all done, but Tom still had the character sheet.

I was floored. No one asked me about this, or even let me know that it was happening until after the fact.

As planned, I had lunch with Jan and talked about the game with her. It became clear that Tom had done the following:

1) Not told her ANYTHING about the setting or campaign (Golarion, RotRL).

2) Built her a complicated multi-class PC (Druid 4/Rogue 3). I'm fine with Jan playing that if that's what she wants, though I generally try to steer new players away from magic-users for their first PC because they're complicated to run. Also, because I was not there, I worry that Tom may have railroaded her into the class choice. She seemed unclear on why she had levels of rogue, for example.

3) Used a stat generation method which was NOT the same as anyone else in the campaign (4d6, re-roll 1s and 2s, drop lowest) which resulted in massively higher ability scores than any other PC.

4) Given her three fairly weak feats: Animal Affinity, Stealthy, and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip). We're on 3.5 rules, so the PC only has 3 feats at level 7.

5) Assigned her one and only low ability score -- a 12 -- to Constitution. Since the PC is an elf, that dropped to 10, leaving a very small pool of hit points.

6) Concocted an intro story that involves the PC stealing from one of the other PCs.

The end result is a PC is a mess. In story terms, she is poorly integrated with the world. In mechanical terms, she's grossly over-powered on every ability except Constitution, making her a glass cannon. The PC uses an unusual weapon with weird sub-rules of its own, and has two different sets of class abilities to deal with, including prepared casting. In short, the character is going to be very difficult for a new player to run. That will slow down the game for everyone else while she's figuring stuff out -- at least until the PC gets herself killed, which is a distinct possibility given how few hit points she has and the range of a whip.

I am seriously annoyed with Tom over this. As the GM, I need to be involved when a new player is being introduced to the game. I know what's coming up, and can suggest character options that will both mesh smoothly with the setting and work well with the upcoming adversaries. Hopefully I can also help the new player build a PC which fits their idea of what the PC should be like and also give them an opportunity to learn the rules in a smooth progression rather than a giant dump of mismatched bits.

I plan to talk to Tom about it. Diplomatically. After I finish steaming out my ears. Any advice on how to address the issue?

[Gwen Smith]

I think you've already plainly expressed what you need to tell Tom:

"As the GM, I need to be involved when a new player is being introduced to the game. I know what's coming up, and can suggest character options that will both mesh smoothly with the setting and work well with the upcoming adversaries. Hopefully I can also help the new player build a PC which fits their idea of what the PC should be like and also give them an opportunity to learn the rules in a smooth progression rather than a giant dump of mismatched bits."

I would say exactly that, right there. Although you might choose to leave off the "giant dump of mismatched bits", if you want to be extra diplomatic.

Don't worry about going into detail about what's wrong with the character unless he specifically asks. It doesn't matter whether the character he designed was perfect in every way: you still need to be involved.

If Tom does ask what he did wrong with the character, items 1, 2, 3, and 6 are objectively incorrect or problematic, so I would concentrate on those issues. Items 4 and 5 are personal preference or play style, and you can get into a long philosophical argument over whether glass cannons are "good" or "bad".

[GreyWolfLord]

Yes, be nice....

Also ask him if he wanted to play a second character...specifically a certain Druid/Rogue....

[aegrisomnia]

Please take this in the best possible way: it's a game. Tell Jan that you think the character is going to be difficult to play for mechanical as well as RP reasons, and suggest that she let you help her build another. If she declines, make any necessary modifications to her backstory (necessary being the key word) and let her give it a shot. Yes, she might be slow, and she might not be very useful and she might even get herself killed off... but that's part of the game, especially when you're playing with people of different levels of experience.

Just let it go and move on. If you're right, then Jan should recognize the problems you're warning her about within a few sessions and realize that she might have more fun with a different character.

[Kip Edwards]

My thoughts would be suggest rolling up a different character with "Jan" so she can have a better understanding of her character, which would also give you room to make her character fit your game better. We run into the same issue in my D&D group...Our Dm basically has a rule that he has to ok the new character before they can jump it into the campaign. He still has the problem of people wanting to bring new players in without asking first... Hard to regulate your friends when your all trying to have fun. People playing characters that throw the game off balance will cause more issues then having a "Screening process" for new characters being brought in.

[StDrake]

Exact wording may vary, but I'd propose something along the lines of:
"Tom, I heard you helped Jan make a character to start with. It's really nice of you to help along and I appreciate that but..what WERE you thinking to propose a sophisticated, multi-layered, hard to run well and not even very effective at first sight character to a new person?
It seems like you may have not considered that the person would have so many options to worry about from the start the she might get put off, but maybe you have some plan I'm not aware of?"

[Pan]

Sounds like you know exactly what you need to do. Good luck with Tom.

[Tinalles]

Part of the problem is that I don't know Jan well enough to figure out how many of the choices involved in the character creation were hers. If she really wants to play a druid/rogue, I'm fine with that. It's her PC. She should have agency in it. If that means playing a difficult PC her first time out, so be it.

But I'm worried that she got overwhelmed with choices and just accepted whatever Tom suggested. The PC sounds weirdly like his current character: a female elf Rogue 4/Wizard 3 going for Arcane Trickster, with a low CON score and a weird weapon that deals little damage (hand crossbow).

Jan has agreed to do a 1-on-1 session in which I will simply give her some self-contained challenges designed to let her try her character's abilities. I'm hoping that with a little more time to talk with her I'll get a better sense for what she wants in her PC. Also hopefully an actual scenario will give her more insight into how a character works in-game.

[Kolokotroni]

Tinalles wrote:

Part of the problem is that I don't know Jan well enough to figure out how many of the choices involved in the character creation were hers. If she really wants to play a druid/rogue, I'm fine with that. It's her PC. She should have agency in it. If that means playing a difficult PC her first time out, so be it.

But I'm worried that she got overwhelmed with choices and just accepted whatever Tom suggested. The PC sounds weirdly like his current character: a female elf Rogue 4/Wizard 3 going for Arcane Trickster, with a low CON score and a weird weapon that deals little damage (hand crossbow).

Jan has agreed to do a 1-on-1 session in which I will simply give her some self-contained challenges designed to let her try her character's abilities. I'm hoping that with a little more time to talk with her I'll get a better sense for what she wants in her PC. Also hopefully an actual scenario will give her more insight into how a character works in-game.

Start over. Say 'Hey jan, I know you made that character with tom, but generally its a good idea to go over things with the GM first in such matters. Lets talk out what kind of character you want to play, and how to make that happen with classes/options and how to integrate your character into the story'. Then do those things. If that means throwing out the rogue druid so be it. But dont let a mistake by one of your players compound into future problems. Its perfectly find not to be sure how much the character is jans desire and how much is Toms suggestions. Ask her. Walk her through it as if you were going from scratch.

[Pan]

I wouldn't worry too much about the CON score. If 10 is her lowest Stat then she is probably going to be kick ass anyways. The one on one session will reveal what she is ready for and any problems that exist should arise. Be ready to help her adjust the PC if necessary. Don't be too hard on Tom he was probably just excited about a new player and wanted to help.

[Melvin the Mediocre]

First of all, try not to be mad. The player was trying to help, and they are probably pretty passionate about the game.

That being said, it does make sense you would want to introduce the new player to your campaign. So you are on the right track by talking to the player and finding out they can't explain the mechanics of their character. Next just ask them questions like what do you see your character doing in the game and then show them how rules can be used to make that concept.

I simple request to the helper player like "Hey, thanks for helping, but next time let me as DM be the one to help the newbies build their first character" should suffice.