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This is a pretty simple question. If i cast a spell that has no visible effect, such as charm person, or other effects that aren't reflex saves. If they fail or make the save, do they know it? If I try and charm someone and they make their save, do they KNOW they've made a will save? I looked over the magic section and couldn't find anything. Any thoughts?
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
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So, no pretending to be Charmed or Dominated unless you're a Master Spy.
Also, if you cast a Silent Spell and have the Secret Signs feat, "Guys, I think someone tried to cast a spell on me!" but they can't tell that you were the one who tried it unless their perception beats your sleight of hand.
This also means that, even if the person has no ranks in spellcraft, if they make their save against your charm spell, they'll be fairly certain (depending on how much contact they've had with magic) that they resisted your spell, whatever it was.
Even if you lie about what the spell is, they can still make a save if the spell you cast isn't what you say it will be. It prevents bards and sorcerers from promising to cast Guidance, bluffing successfully, and getting people to forfeit their saves/SR against Charm Monster. They still won't know what the spell is, just that it "felt different" from what was promised.
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Even if you lie about what the spell is, they can still make a save if the spell you cast isn't what you say it will be. It prevents bards and sorcerers from promising to cast Guidance, bluffing successfully, and getting people to forfeit their saves/SR against Charm Monster. They still won't know what the spell is, just that it "felt different" from what was promised.
I did not know about this point. Where does this rule appear ?
SR is either on or off. if you bluff someone into lowering their SR... then they do.
The save however is reflexive. If whatever you cast is bad for them, they save. They can only not save if they purposefully intend for something to harm them... and even then, there are plenty of cases where they have no choice but to save. That gets into DM call territory I think... if it ever comes up I guess.
Not many people voluntarily want to fail their save vs filth fever, for example. You pretty much just save whether you like it or not.
Slightly off topic, but related to knowing you succeeded on a save...
Zone of Truth. Anyone in your zone cannot lie. But... there is a will save. So... how do yo know if someone is affected or if they saved? Dun dun dun...
Affected creatures are aware of this enchantment
Bam! Paydirt.
Say they fail their save. They know they're under the effect of Zone of Truth.
"Are you affected by a spell right now"? they must answer Yes.
"What spells are you affected by right now?" they must tell you they are affected by Zone of Truth.
Say instead they made their save... They know they resisted something, but not what it is.
"Are you affected by a spell right now?" They can say anything. But if they say no... well, you know it must be true.
"What spells are you affected by?" They have no idea what spell it was, they'd have to guess. If they we trying to lie about it in the first place, that is.
Bam. Now you know whether or not your Zone of Truth is working to a fairly high degree.
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Except that IIRC ZoT does not force you to answer. So not answering these rather strange questions is an option in both cases ;-)
Still not seeing what in the RAW says that you can agree to willingly fail your save against a spell then change your mind and resist it if it is not the spell you agreed to, without a single roll of spellcraft.
Honestly, I see this as so far above metagaming that we would need some new word for it.