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Help Me Build a Non-Caster Caster

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Alright, so I'm working on a low-magic campaign setting. The idea is that magic exists, and magical phenomena are a thing (Magic creatures, undead, angels and demons are real) but magic is not easy to control and spell casting is exceptionally rare (Like, to be able to wield spells the way a wizard does you would need something like a doctorate level of education).

So, what this means is that I need a new base class that can fill the scholarly role with some limited magic use. I want to keep the spell casting balanced against martial classes, rather than against what spell casting is currently capable of. I'm looking at calling the class "scholar" and making it intelligence based.

Right now what I'm doing is using the Wizard as my base, keeping all of their class abilities besides the actual spells, and looking at adding some spell abilities based on ranks in knowledge skills and some extra abilities based on skills like Knowledge, spellcraft, and linguistics.

I had considered doing something where different spells are tied to different skills, so like Knowledge: the Planes for most summoning, Knowledge: Nature for a lot of Druidic spells, Knowledge Religion for most Cleric spells, Knowledge: Arcana for a lot of your standard wizardy stuff, etc and having some limited spell casting based on that. Part of my goal is that actual spell casting doesn't get above like, level five or six spells even at the very end game.

Can anyone give me some help on refining this idea? I know it's kind'a jumbled right now, and I'm kind'a stumped on how to handle it.

Have you looked at E6 or any of its variants? They may have some things relating to rituals that you could use.

Also just to clarify what you are looking for is essentially a hybrid caster (up to lvl 6 spells) that replaces his other spells with more knowledge? What is the maximum spells per day you want him to be able to have?

I think this is somthing best done in the fluff. Behags limit your game to the caster classes that gives only 6 levels of spells. But the low magic feel works IMOP best in other systems. GURPS is a great system for this i think.

I would just use a Warlock (3.5) but strip it of it's flavor. Make the eldritch blast tied to an arcane item like a wand (so the caster has to have the wand at hand) and seems more like a caster, re name the invocations so they sound less creepy, and ta daa! Instant character compatible with warrior types.

Then you don't have to rewrite the book.

May not work for you, but it's an idea.

Another one that my work is use the Witch from Monte Cooks Arcana Unearthed. They seem relatively low powered, with limited spell selection. I don't even think they have 9th level spells. But they have some funky abilities.

As far as making a whole new class... too much work for me... and really unneccessary. Just tweak and reflavor something.

My two cents.

It almost sounds like you want a bard variant with more skills and less spellcasting. You also might want to look at the Loremaster prestige class as inspiration. Yes, it's a prestige class, but it shouldn't be too hard to convert to a full class.

I assume you allow familiars -- maybe allow Improved Familiar at an earlier level? Maybe allow proficiency with swords if you are looking for more of a Tolkien-esque wizard flavor?

I think the flavor I'm going for is closer to Tolkien. To be honest, I'd like to just remove primary casters from the game altogether but I like a lot of the stuff that goes with the classes and players get really upset when you tell them there's not a wizard class to play, at least in my experience (Seriously, I've had players who had no interest whatsoever in playing a spellcaster until I told them I didn't want spellcasters in my game).

I guess in a lot of ways what I'm looking for is sort of Wizard + Loremaster - Primary Spellcasting.

Of course, I'm also going to inevitably need some way of doing something like this for divine casters and sorcerers too I think.

I also think that endgame what I'd like to do is make magic less spikey. I want what you can do with spells (as in the kind that can be cast within a single round) to be less world shattering and powerful, but also more reliable. Something like a very small pool of spells that you could use an unlimited number of times would be interesting to me.

You might want to take a look at the 3rd party product the riven mage by rogue genius games. Its int based, and its sort of a caster, but it doesnt use the normal magic system. It has very simple supernatural abilities called 'riven spells' that do basic things like move faster or throw a blast of force at someone, but no where near the complexity or veratility of normal magic.

Hmm, that's not available on an SRD unfortunately. But it sounds, at least in flavor, like what I'm after.

you can pick up the pdf for a few bucks here on paizo, I happen to really like it. And I really think it sits solidly in the space you are looking for. Int based, has almost all the knowledge skills, simple supernatural abilities from a short list. And eventually with some of the 'paths' you can do things like use scrolls and wands as if you were a full casting class, as you learn to make use of the work of the 'true masters' of magic, even if you havent mastered it yourself. You are also far more limited in what you can do, but have greater flexibility in enacting those few things and more longevity (potentially) then a normal caster as it uses a kind of spell points instead of the fire and forget spell slots.

Cool! I'll end up posting the results if I end up turning it into something custom. If I end up using this, it'll be next month (Silly bills).

Thanks for all of the advice.

How about the idea of scaling magic more exponentially? Make it not viable as a sole survival mechanism at the first 10 levels -- cantrip style, the next 5 levels make it utility /useful, enchantments, buffs, etc., then 15-20... deadly. These are just examples of the curve so you have an idea of what i'm talking about. This sort of simulates powerful casters in a low-magic world.

As far as a caster's survivability in the first 10 levels.. either buff up their melee to sub-par, or hire some adventurers? Find other ways to be useful other than combat?

I'm going to plug myself a bit here. Have you checked out my custom class the gadgeteer?

It produces minor magical effects based on common adventuring items. The base version does use guns but I have an archetype that sticks to crossbows.

If it feels a little too high tech then you strip away a lot of that. Rename a few things, perhaps drop the minor gadgets, change a little of the flavor of the abilities, and bam: A low magic character that creates pester effects. I offer advice in the thread on how to make it more of an item wizard flavor wise.
Grand Lodge

Have you looked at D20 Modern? It should be easily adjustable to your needs.
DetectiveKatana wrote:

I think the flavor I'm going for is closer to Tolkien. To be honest, I'd like to just remove primary casters from the game altogether but I like a lot of the stuff that goes with the classes and players get really upset when you tell them there's not a wizard class to play, at least in my experience (Seriously, I've had players who had no interest whatsoever in playing a spellcaster until I told them I didn't want spellcasters in my game).

I guess in a lot of ways what I'm looking for is sort of Wizard + Loremaster - Primary Spellcasting.

Of course, I'm also going to inevitably need some way of doing something like this for divine casters and sorcerers too I think.

I also think that endgame what I'd like to do is make magic less spikey. I want what you can do with spells (as in the kind that can be cast within a single round) to be less world shattering and powerful, but also more reliable. Something like a very small pool of spells that you could use an unlimited number of times would be interesting to me.

Yeah that's the 3.5 Warlock pretty much to a t. Just add more skills and make him int based

Have you considered making the Scholar a Bard Archetype?

I thought about this issue for 3.5, and thought up a very simple answer; enforced multiclassing. No character can take more than half of its levels in any one class (rounded up). This applies at all levels. That way, you can be a fighter 10/Bard 10, a cleric 10/wizard 10, fi 4/rog 4, wiz 6/rog 6 and so on, but you cannot be a pure wizard or cleric. It effectively limits the game to 5th levels spells. Because BAB stacks while casting abilities do not, it creates a power shift in favor of the martial classes. It does cut back the rogue's sneak attack ceiling, which you may like or not.

If it is specifically the casters you want to change, maybe only apply the rule to them.

Nota bene, when I thought this up it was for 3.5. Pathfinder is slightly different inthat it encourages multiclassing less and has more class features for the martial classes (specifically fighter and rogue), some thught might have to go into those. But overall I think the idea should work. Presige classes also require some special treatment, if allowed at all.

Quick Tolkien houserule: mandatory multiclassing: full casters must multiclass half and half.

See also this excellent PF/d20 Middle Earth conversion from this site
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