I think weekly or bi-weekly I will have a handful of questions to pose to these forums, so I can resolve things with my GM who is super crazy. Here are some of the questions I have that I can recall at the moment being disputed during the game.
So, we have color spray hitting a Phantom Fungus, and with this happening the Fungus is hanging upside down on the ceiling... It gets stunned, so doesn't this thing fall to the ground, letting go of the ceiling? You drop weapons in hand and such, so logically your body is stunned, so you just fall, right?
There were other fungus things in here that I forget their proper name, but when 10 ft of light gets near them, or movement, they scream like crazy I guess. Well, color spray goes off, and then I'm being told that color spray only works within light... and not only that, but IT MAKES LIGHT WHEN IT IS USED! It's debatable if it works only in light, but rather you need to have a sight sensory deal going on for it to work by RAW. So, because the word "vivid" is written, this guy thinks "bright" and thinks light is being made! I tell him if we interpret darkness just negating things, then this is how the spell will work, which I'll write below.
IF color spray needs light for it to be seen, then the effect in which it works are squares that total darkness don't exist within it's cone. It can go through darkness and be of no consequence, but any % of light it enters, then it's valid. Again, this is if you interpret that total darkness negates.
FURTHER, being VIVID is just the brightness quality of the color. You need LIGHT to exist for your eyes to take in sensory data to interpret shapes and colors, and when you see a color spray, then you're seeing a BRIGHT COLOR. Even saying "BRIGHT LIGHT" is describing the intensity of LIGHT, just like the intensity of the color is BRIGHT. Lack of light, means lack of seeing this BRIGHTNESS."
Am I making sense here?
tl;dr
1. Color spray/Stun cause a Phantom Fungus inverted climbing on a ceiling fall off?
2. Does color spray make light?
3. Does color spray not work in total darkness?
Also, for myself, I have never played a spell caster, and want to know about people noticing things happening to them with spell effects.
In general, I cast a spell on you and you don't have spell craft at all, or even if you do have one, and you make a will save, can you at all know that you've just been targeted, and can you tell who did it? Apply common sense that someone was just going through spell components etc. and then while also asking if no obvious sign was made too.
More specifically. A witches Slumber hex, does that apply any obvious movements or anything, or you just will it to happen as a standard action? Can anyone tell that they've been a failed target of this, and if so, can they tell who did it?
This GM explicitly told me that he interprets this creature to be holding on, especially since Mr. Fungus was taking some strolls around the room/ceiling to illegally hit us with his reaching bite attacks he doesn't have.
Color spray creates a visual illusion (pattern) that has to be seen to be effective. While it creates colors, it doesn't create a light effect so it wouldn't work in darkness unless a viewer can see in that type of darkness.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It sounds like you shouldn't play with this guy. I am not remotely suggesting that he is a bad or unfair GM, but it does sound like the game he is running and the game you want to play are not the same.
It happens, you may have to try out several groups before you find one you like.
Plants are immune to mind-affecting spells. Ergo, everyone was wrong. Case closed.
I don't metagame the monsters, but thank you very much. They're also immune to stunning too. Just knowing basic things about the monsters you set up ahead of time would be extremely helpful.
I did a knowledge check on the plants, and we had an argument about how to use knowledge correctly. I argued that regardless of story elements about personally seeing said creatures in the flesh, that books, and other sources provide you with the mental weapons to understand your foes especially to find their weaknesses. I am just told that since my character never seen one before, that I'm screwed to never know. Facepalm as I just point out that the investment in the skillpoint reflects that my character does know, based on the instance of rolling the dice then and there for the knowledge check. TEARS!
@Dos, thanks for pointing out the pattern portion of the spell. I again, don't even cast spells and missed that. I appreciate the eye.
@BigDTBone, he is all we got, and he actually tolerates being dumped on really well. He is stubborn and wrong with so much, and it's mainly to blame with him playing 3.5 incorrectly for all his life (and how he keeps referring to incorrect 3.5 rules, when we're playing pathfinder.)
Regardless that this thing shouldn't have worked in the first place, WOULD THIS CREATURE HAVE FALLEN FROM THE CEILING?! Would being stunned make you fall from the ceiling, because common sense in my opinion says, YES.
Also, please, if anyone can see my 2nd set of questions and answer them, I would enjoy that as well. Give me your knowledge!
I see stunning being locked in place, and things like your hands and stuff just straighten out and get stiff like when a boxer gets KOed in that method. You drop your weapons and such, so you clinging to the ceiling should reflect you losing that and falling. Staying standing up I feel is reflected because you're standing on the ground, and your body just stiffens up and straightens out, which is just you still standing.
EDIT: I clearly confused Paralyzed with stunned in the aspect of freezing up your body.
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
You basically have spent the whole thread calling your GM a cheat, and then telling us he is OK with that. As a GM I wouldn't. Also, the GM runs the game, not an upset player, if he wants a fungus to be able to cling to the celling, that's his choice. The rules are guidelines and many GMs change creature stats and encounters too change things up, if you do not like this GMs style, you should consider finding a different game or even running one yourself. Also just because you have a skill roll does not mean the GM has to hand of any and all information on the subject. If you are having this much trouble with colorspray, you also might want to just reroll a melee class.
Having someone tell me the good old "Your GM runs the game, so like it or leave" isn't helpful, and it's insulting to me as if you think I have never heard it before, or need reminding.
So, our group discusses and has an understanding of what to expect from the game, and basic mechanics of how things properly work by the rules is something we all agreed upon. Thus, positions of the players, and arguments on the direct subject of how things properly work is completely relevant, and thus, I'M IN THE RULES SECTION DISCUSSING RULES.
I don't expect the GM to just give me everything I desire, and I am not looking for any advantages. It's clear that he doesn't understand how simple mechanics work in the game, and when he is explained what to do properly by things being reflected by skill checks and stuff, he just ignores it and moves forward...
Is the GM cheating? No, this dude honestly thinks he is doing things correctly. Cheating implies he is intentionally doing something deceptive and such, which he completely isn't, but rather, innocently running the game properly in his mind. I respect him for running our game, and making his decisions in that fashion.
So, if I'm ever in your game and we agreed to these terms, and you tell me assert the classic "THIS IS MY GAME, AND I'M THE GM" then of course I would leave, and I'm sure everyone else would. Enjoy playing your role playing game that should be a collaboration of GM and players, all by yourself Rhaleroad.
|
I see nothing to indicate that color spray creates any form of light. There is also the line "Sightless creatures are not affected by color spray." In total darkness, normal vision and low-light vision are effectively sightless, so I wouldn't see it as amiss to rule that Color Spray has no effect if the creature(s) in question is incapable of seeing it for any reason. 50/50 on if it works on darkvision, since darkvision is never in color.
As far as the "holding onto the ceiling," I'd say it probably can, especially if it has a climb speed for whatever reason. Stunned does say "drops everything held," but it doesn't say, for example "flying creatures fall." Paralyzed has that wording, so you can make a case either way. It's "dropping" the ceiling and thus falling, but it isn't ceasing to maintain its previous stance, so ...
Tl;Dr
1) Strongly up to interpretation; solid arguments available both ways
2) No
3) Correct
Re-reading Paralyzed, and comparing it to stunned I now come to conclusion that perhaps I was confusing them to a degree. You pointing out about flying is really convincing and I admit that I am incorrect with my falling from the ceiling argument when a creature can keep flapping its wings or what have you to maintain flying.
Also, dark vision and color spray in relation to seeing in non-color is very interesting as well, so thank you jlighter for that thought.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
he is all we got, and he actually tolerates being dumped on really well. He is stubborn and wrong with so much, and it's mainly to blame with him playing 3.5 incorrectly for all his life (and how he keeps referring to incorrect 3.5 rules, when we're playing pathfinder.)
Wow. Have a little patience.
If you know the game so well then take the reins. Don't come to the community and crap on your GM expecting us to have your back. There are two sides to EVERY story and for every issue you claim s/he has interpreted incorrectly, I am sure you have the same in spades. I strongly dislike players who attempt to correct my every adjudication when I am behind the screen. (Especially when they refuse to reciprocate by GMing them-self.)
If you think it is easy to build a campaign full of challenges, plot arcs, monsters, puzzles and npcs from session to session, you are dead wrong. Put yourself in his/her shoes. This person spends HOURS of prep per game session to ensure you are having a good time. Try and show him/her an iota of respect. "All we got..." Doesn't cut it.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It could be WAY worse. Your group could be arguing about alignment...
Again, this cliche response that you just assume that I'm not giving a fair shake, is just inconsiderate of you and not helpful at all to my thread about rules. It's quite aggravating to have people just want to chime in with their ignorant GM defense asserting I'm some major jerk or something.
Have a little patience? I have plenty of patience with this individual, and thus we are continuously playing session to session despite their actions and behavior. Using logic of "this is not what happens in 3.5" then looking at 3.5 rules, and him being completely wrong is a major issue. Not only does he assert he is correct through mentioning that 3.5 indeed worked differently, but it ends up that he's wrong about that too. I would like it if my GM was open minded, and simply focused on the fact we're playing pathfinder like we agreed. I am not the only person at the table who took time to play, and neither is he.
I have so much respect and appreciation for anyone that GMs, because I personally know it takes tons of work, and I never have even done it before. This guy does some pretty neat things by bringing childhood toys that work as really interesting puzzles, and they don't always work out too well, but he is crazy creative. He just has major issues of being stubborn, and can't accept when he is incorrect. We run a democracy with expectations on things we agreed before in terms of how the game should be run while playing Pathfinder.
So again, I'm on the RULES FORUM, hoping to discuss RULES. Anyone that wants to be rude to me, and just be nothing but counter productive can just go make a thread called "Being the GM, and telling players "I'M THE BOSS" official appreciation thread" and you can link threads like this and analyze everything you wish. For this thread, I would appreciate it if people could answer my questions, because you can always NOT participate.
It could be WAY worse. Your group could be arguing about alignment...
I could tell you the story of this mid session, and end session discussion about not playing Neutral Evil correctly. This guy on a personal level just has issues with making sound arguments, and whatever comes to mind first is what he sticks with until almost the bitter end. It's extremely frustraiting, but we tolerate it since he is a great sport about it. If I lacked the self awareness he lacks and all the other sadly negative qualities, and people were justifiably telling me I was wrong, then I'm pretty sure I would flip out. He has tons of respect by me, and the other players for taking these conflicts so well.
To everyone else, I don't need advice about finding a new GM, and I don't need to hear about how you would not play with me if you were the GM since I'm just some closed minded jerk apparently (insert more ignorant assumptions painting me out as a terrible player/person). At the end of the game, we all had fun with the experience of playing his game. We all agree it could much more enjoyable without all the issues, but that will take time to do, especially when sound explanations via rules forums exist to help him acclimate to actually listening when we point out an error, instead of just insisting he's right.
PS
We had a 30 minute argument over being tied up (bound) actually makes you helpless, because he had arguments about if he was tied up that he could still get some sort of dexterity to rocking around. Crying out to this man to just follow the RAW go unheard as he sits on his throne of madness until the war of attrition widdles him down to reason.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Again, this cliche response that you just assume that I'm not giving a fair shake, is just inconsiderate of you and not helpful at all to my thread about rules. It's quite aggravating to have people just want to chime in with their ignorant GM defense asserting I'm some major jerk or something.
Have a little patience? I have plenty of patience with this individual, and thus we are continuously playing session to session despite their actions and behavior. Using logic of "this is not what happens in 3.5" then looking at 3.5 rules, and him being completely wrong is a major issue. Not only does he assert he is correct through mentioning that 3.5 indeed worked differently, but it ends up that he's wrong about that too. I would like it if my GM was open minded, and simply focused on the fact we're playing pathfinder like we agreed. I am not the only person at the table who took time to play, and neither is he.
I have so much respect and appreciation for anyone that GMs, because I personally know it takes tons of work, and I never have even done it before. This guy does some pretty neat things by bringing childhood toys that work as really interesting puzzles, and they don't always work out too well, but he is crazy creative. He just has major issues of being stubborn, and can't accept when he is incorrect. We run a democracy with expectations on things we agreed before in terms of how the game should be run while playing Pathfinder.
So again, I'm on the RULES FORUM, hoping to discuss RULES. Anyone that wants to be rude to me, and just be nothing but counter productive can just go make a thread called "Being the GM, and telling players "I'M THE BOSS" official appreciation thread" and you can link threads like this and analyze everything you wish. For this thread, I would appreciate it if people could answer my questions, because you can always NOT participate.
If you don't want to talk about how you come off as a jerk, trying not starting threads which call into question the mental stability of your GM in the title. If you don't want to talk about your game situation then leave it out of the question.
You don't get to waive the "rules forum" flag when you blew that cover in the OP. I would suggest next time just posting your question without all the drama.
@BigDTBone, again, why participate to just lecture me on this? Obviously him being a madman is an exaggeration focused on my frustrations that I feel just about anyone ESPECIALLY in the rules section could understand. Please, just stop participating in the fashion you are in this thread, because my questions most likely won't be addressed, and I'll have to make a new thread in order to seek help.
I'm sorry if you don't like my title that could attract attention, but this isn't the critique the title thread in all honesty. If you don't want to appreciate the insight I've given to my situation, then ignore it to just answer my questions, or don't participate. If you think what I've done is innaproperate for the forums, then FLAG the post. You could private message me, and perhaps I could amend things as to be considerate of others if the case was I felt I was wrong for what I did.
I hate these cliche and hypocritical positions that the GM is always correct, and that the player is wrong implying a lack of consideration. Blinders on ignorant assumptions are what have issue with inconsideration, and for the last time, use the rules forum to discuss rules, and not argue about your crusade to keep GM superiority intact.
@yumad, I'm completely influenced by posting immediately after conversing about many frustrating arguments with this individual, so yes, my post reflect hyperbole. I don't feel it makes for an excuse for these people to post what they do though, and I personally hate seeing it plague the boards. "GM is always right, and if you don't like it, find another game" is right up there with all the cliche statements that really don't help anyone with any of their problems. Give that man a big pat on the back for repeating that thing with pretty much no redeeming value.
Before I respond, I want you to read the title of your thread and ask yourself what it has to do with "The Rules of Pathfinder".
Again, this cliche response that you just assume that I'm not giving a fair shake, is just inconsiderate of you and not helpful at all to my thread about rules. It's quite aggravating to have people just want to chime in with their ignorant GM defense asserting I'm some major jerk or something.
I never said anything derogatory towards you. I wish I could say the same for you in regards to your GM and the members of the community here.
Using logic of "this is not what happens in 3.5" then looking at 3.5 rules, and him being completely wrong is a major issue.
Your GM seems to be the type that has been around for many iterations of the rules. Trust me it's not easy keeping everything straight. 3.0 and 3.5 were released very close together and yet there are some MAJOR differences that will catch the worlds biggest rules lawyer by the toes.
Not only does he assert he is correct through mentioning that 3.5 indeed worked differently, but it ends up that he's wrong about that too. I would like it if my GM was open minded, and simply focused on the fact we're playing pathfinder like we agreed. I am not the only person at the table who took time to play, and neither is he.
They call it "Running a Game" for a reason. It's hard to run a game when people question many of your decisions. I could understand him being stubborn if a multitude of players at the table question him and slow the game down. It's not easy being 'ganged up on' which isn't a stretch to assume.
I have so much respect and appreciation for anyone that GMs, because I personally know it takes tons of work, and I never have even done it before.
I can only suggest trying it. It teaches you so much more about the game. Not just rules-wise either, but time management, role playing, story telling, patience.... I could go on and on.
This guy does some pretty neat things by bringing childhood toys that work as really interesting puzzles, and they don't always work out too well, but he is crazy creative. He just has major issues of being stubborn, and can't accept when he is incorrect.
It sounds like you have the making of a fantastic GM. Don't hinder him. Help him.
We run a democracy with expectations on things we agreed before in terms of how the game should be run while playing Pathfinder.
As much as I WISH that was true. There is ultimately a final arbiter. You don't vote on the plot either. It's widely accepted that an RPG is not a democracy.
So again, I'm on the RULES FORUM, hoping to discuss RULES. Anyone that wants to be rude to me, and just be nothing but counter productive can just go make a thread called "Being the GM, and telling players "I'M THE BOSS" official appreciation thread" and you can link threads like this and analyze everything you wish. For this thread, I would appreciate it if people could answer my questions, because you can always NOT participate.
You are correct about being in the rules forum, but that doesn't mean you can trash talk someone and assert your own opinion under a veil of validity. If you want me to respond to a Rules Question, then pose an objective rules question without flaming anyone.
|
|
For the sake of moving the discussion forward, let's leave any personal comments about style or presentation to private messages, unless it's constructive? Calling somebody a jerk when they're trying to get help is not productive. Asking them to tone it down and then answering the question is.
For what it's worth, it sounds like he may have the answers he needs, so perhaps there is little need to continue.
Rapanuii, might want to tone it down a bit in future. Sounds like your GM may have some memory issues and dogmatic tendencies (like my brother), but that isn't a reason to get defensive over your point of view. This is merely an opinion, not an attack. Take it for what it's worth.
There is also a practice that I've seen done many times successfully. GM makes a ruling at the time, and later, the ruling can be challenged after the table session is over (say later in the week after time for rules study has happened). Maybe implement this in future dealings with your GM?
[stuff]
Ninja'd
@BigDTBone, again, why participate to just lecture me on this? Obviously him being a madman is an exaggeration focused on my frustrations that I feel just about anyone ESPECIALLY in the rules section could understand. Please, just stop participating in the fashion you are in this thread, because my questions most likely won't be addressed, and I'll have to make a new thread in order to seek help.
I'm sorry if you don't like my title that could attract attention, but this isn't the critique the title thread in all honesty. If you don't want to appreciate the insight I've given to my situation, then ignore it to just answer my questions, or don't participate. If you think what I've done is innaproperate for the forums, then FLAG the post. You could private message me, and perhaps I could amend things as to be considerate of others if the case was I felt I was wrong for what I did.
I hate these cliche and hypocritical positions that the GM is always correct, and that the player is wrong implying a lack of consideration. Blinders on ignorant assumptions are what have issue with inconsideration, and for the last time, use the rules forum to discuss rules, and not argue about your crusade to keep GM superiority intact.
Forums are meant to be an open format for discussion. You have expressed displeasure with the reaction you have received and I offered you advice on how to avoid that in the future.
I don't think what you said was inappropriate, but I also think the response you received was appropriate.
I also don't recall ever saying the GM is always right. In this particular case I think your was probably under-informed but ultimately made some good calls.
"GM is always right, and if you don't like it, find another game"
Who said that?
@Bornofhate, you writing that you didn't write anything derogatory isn't true at all. Your initial response is using rhetoric implying I'm unappreciative of the efforts he puts in. That isn't an issue at all, but rather I made it clear about our arguments. I don't need your analysis about being more considerate in the least, and can assure you I am one of the most patient and considerate people myself, and people I know, know. You can take that as you will. The rest of what you wrote isn't worth my time responding to, because it's all you with this position that I am something I'm not, and I'm expression some position that I'm not, as if I'm unaware of those things. So please, stop assuming things of others, and please stop using the forums to lecture people like you are toward myself.
@Jlighter, THANK YOU! Yes, as stated I spiced up what I wrote for dramatic effect in order to convey my frustrations. I don't necessarily feel I need to censor that, but rather others should have self control not to be rude on the forums.
I wrote questions about using spells in relation to awareness that they've been cast on you (Will saves and stuff). If anyone could give me insight on that, I would appreciate it. It was something interesting we got into, and none of us were absolutely sure about.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
@Bornofhate, you writing that you didn't write anything derogatory isn't true at all. Your initial response is using rhetoric implying I'm unappreciative of the efforts he puts in. That isn't an issue at all, but rather I made it clear about our arguments. I don't need your analysis about being more considerate in the least, and can assure you I am one of the most patient and considerate people myself, and people I know, know. You can take that as you will. The rest of what you wrote isn't worth my time responding to, because it's all you with this position that I am something I'm not, and I'm expression some position that I'm not, as if I'm unaware of those things. So please, stop assuming things of others, and please stop using the forums to lecture people like you are toward myself.
@Jlighter, THANK YOU! Yes, as stated I spiced up what I wrote for dramatic effect in order to convey my frustrations. I don't necessarily feel I need to censor that, but rather others should have self control not to be rude on the forums.
I wrote questions about using spells in relation to awareness that they've been cast on you (Will saves and stuff). If anyone could give me insight on that, I would appreciate it. It was something interesting we got into, and none of us were absolutely sure about.
I would soooo boot you.
Best of luck in your game.
|
|
While I agree with you in theory about people not being rude on the forums, people are people. They react to what they see and read. It's entirely possible to spice things up for dramatic effect and not read as petulant. I'm not saying censor the flair for the dramatic, I'm just saying temper it. Helps to avoid problems.
As far as your question about Will saves and spells, you have had at least one answer. Here's the RAW quote for reference:
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
I would say that if you're feeling a hostile force or tingle, you're definitely aware that there was a spell in the air with your name on it, even if you have no idea what it was or where it came from.
"GM is always right, and if you don't like it, find another game"Who said that?
It was more a general statement for the others who were more directly giving that as their responses. My gripe is that you're somewhat advocating their behavior, while writing things unproductive to my questions. Your first response I actually do respect, so please don't get that twisted, because it was actual good advice. Telling me what I pretty much summarized is not helpful, and I'm pretty sure you see it all over the forums.
I can appreciate the forums being an open discussion, but I expect it to be coherent and directed appropriately. You adding an analysis for something that is irrelevant isn't helpful, but yes, I could see it being extremely helpful if that was something of importance to this thread because if this wasn't about discussing rules and such, then most likely this would be the "argue about if this person is respecting the GM or not" thread.
@Bornofhate, I am not interested in power hungry unfair GMs who don't respect that everyone is spending their personal time to have fun playing the game. If you're suggesting that you're about that life, then I would happily accept you booting me from your game. A democratic game where you decide if house rules exist is something that does indeed exist, and it's a wonderful thing. Allowing reasonable GM creativity for the sake of the game is perfectly fine with everyone in my group. Your lack of knowledge about our game asserting what my behavior is and isn't is what's most insulting, and hopefully you can understand how you're being closed minded when writing such posts.
final thoughts... everyone should respect everyone, and things agreed upon between GM and players should be absolutely honored. If you agree to play the correct rules, then by all means, play the correct rules and make sure they're enforced as to get them understood forever. I won't be responding to this stuff anymore, and just want to know about rules that can not only help me, but everyone in the group have a better pathfinder experience. If you have compassion for my GM especially, you will provide me to the best of your ability accurate information so we play the came properly, and that I can relay this information in the best way possible for all to understand!
As far as I'm concerned, it's more-or-less a rules discrepancy, all of which should've been resolved on Day 0 of the gaming sessions. This headache and frustration is exactly what this stems from, and all I can say is this: Either start the gaming sessions over, and set the ground rules down so all of the players are aware of how the game will be ran, and/or if the players don't like the game the GM is running, then I suggest they either find another group or start their own if the game the GM is running is truly untolerable.
If the GM wants to throw in all this 3.X content with X, Y, and Z from Pathfinder, that's something he should've brought up before you players even sat down at the table. In addition, if it's really that much more similar to 3.X, he should be using those rulebooks instead of the Pathfinder books, in which case it's a 3.X game, and that has barely any jurisdiction here.
I'm not opposed to 3.X content, except for stuff that is blatantly overpowered, but at the same time if we throw in all this extra content from different sources, it no longer becomes Pathfinder, in which case we aren't sure as to how we can truly help you, since it would appear your group is playing a completely different game from what is discussed here.
While I agree with you in theory about people not being rude on the forums, people are people. They react to what they see and read. It's entirely possible to spice things up for dramatic effect and not read as petulant. I'm not saying censor the flair for the dramatic, I'm just saying temper it. Helps to avoid problems.
As far as your question about Will saves and spells, you have had at least one answer. Here's the RAW quote for reference:
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.I would say that if you're feeling a hostile force or tingle, you're definitely aware that there was a spell in the air with your name on it, even if you have no idea what it was or where it came from.
I appreciate your help, and your ability to be rational about things like communication issues. Being inconsiderate is something that really irks me, especially when it's someone basing their actions on complete assumption. From now on, I should just ignore these posts by not responding to them, because in a way, I'm helping them plague the forums.
As far as I'm concerned, it's more-or-less a rules discrepancy, all of which should've been resolved on Day 0 of the gaming sessions. This headache and frustration is exactly what this stems from, and all I can say is this: Either start the gaming sessions over, and set the ground rules down so all of the players are aware of how the game will be ran, and/or if the players don't like the game the GM is running, then I suggest they either find another group or start their own if the game the GM is running is truly untolerable.
If the GM wants to throw in all this 3.X content with X, Y, and Z from Pathfinder, that's something he should've brought up before you players even sat down at the table. In addition, if it's really that much more similar to 3.X, he should be using those rulebooks instead of the Pathfinder books, in which case it's a 3.X game, and that has barely any jurisdiction here.
I'm not opposed to 3.X content, except for stuff that is blatantly overpowered, but at the same time if we throw in all this extra content from different sources, it no longer becomes Pathfinder, in which case we aren't sure as to how we can truly help you, since it would appear your group is playing a completely different game from what is discussed here.
It maybe unbelievable to some, but I personally sat down with all the players and proposed these things myself. A very open discussion about what to expect with the game, what sources, and how house rules will be decided were all thoroughly discussed. The GM still somehow manages to sneak in the 3.5 books, and sometimes in a hilarious fashion where they come out of nowhere due to hiding them, haha.
The consistent defeats I hope will finally make him stop what he's doing, and just accept Pathfinder. It's extremely clear that he thought he could get away with making us play 3.5 while disguising it by being Pathfinder. We got magic items off the 3.5 random magic item generator tonight, and when you're getting wisdom items in the wrong item slot, that's a clear sign that he's using 3.5 and not Pathfinder. He got caught, and we fixed it immediately. I'm sure he is aware that we're not going to ditch him, but I really hope that he will just stop the silly business so we can finally once and for all stop wasting time arguing, and instead enjoy our time playing.
Someone complained about a periapt of wisdom?
That doesn't sound odd to you at all?
Anyway, you have a great time with your game, hope all works out. I'm bowing out here.
-Does he get angry if you drink the milk?
Someone complained about a periapt of wisdom?
That doesn't sound odd to you at all?
Anyway, you have a great time with your game, hope all works out. I'm bowing out here.
Complaining about him not honoring what we agreed upon is something worth complaining about. Getting an illegal item would be nice, but then where is our integrity for what we agreed upon, and this would be mentioned against us in argument to hurt the game.
I put faith into a reasoning of the Pathfinder rules as a whole for why they did things a certain way. I'm not going to be so arrogant as to act like I have a completely mastery of the system, but rather figure that having that item could unbalance things as a whole.
Maybe I'm just unusual, but I actually want to play a game that follows the rules, and allows me to role play/experience the game. Certain exceptions could possibly hurt the game, which is why we as a group make the final say on what is and is not allowed outside of the published rules.
You argue to much.
You argue to much.
cite this by RAW or else I'll just have to remain skeptical. ;P
I see nothing wrong with your comments, Rapanuii. I think they could be well cited and justified. If you all agreed as a group to do X, but the one running the game keeps slipping in Y, then you truly do have a choice whether to call him on it or not. And if you do he will either change or he won't. Then you have the choice of either going with it or leaving. Switching GMs might not be such a bad idea. But taking the discussion this way means I'm straying into the Advice section.
I see how the OP was about rules, so it seems right to put it here. I believe those questions were answered satisfactorily?
|
|
Personally, I see where you're coming from, Chevalier83. But there's a difference between a custom magic item created for the game and repeated instances of slipping in content from a different game. If the group agreed to use the Pathfinder rules and not the 3.X rules, then slipping in the 3.X content constitutes a breach of verbal contract. It sounds like that breach is where the problem is, not the item itself.
Ultimately, you have to trust the GM.
For one thing, your GM is going to be juggling a lot of unknown-to-the-player monster abilities. Is the creature actually a plant, or a polymorphed halfing? Will the characters know (let alone the players)? It's easy to make new abilities, or play monsters with strange abilities, or mistakes on rules calls, most of which aren't a major problem. That's not even counting the fact that many GMs may prefer to simply make a call, right or wrong, and keep the game moving, rather than stopping the game and spending 20 minutes looking through 3 books to try and find the 'right' answer.
Secondly, the GM is the arbiter of logical sense for all those situations the rules don't cover. A GM is going to be making a thousand and one little calls like this over the course of a campaign.
Does a plant hanging from the roof fall down when stunned? Well... maybe. Maybe not. A human drops weapons, which a plant can't do, but a human doesn't fall prone, and a human with Spider Climb on might keep hanging on the ceiling, or not... at the end of the day the stunned condition doesn't give an explicit rule about plants hanging on the ceiling.
We have rules for flying, and for squeezing, but what happens when a flier needs to squeeze through a hole in the ceiling? Do they drop? Does it make a difference if they have wings or the Fly spell?
There's a natural earthquake, and the inn begins to collapse. Does it have a standard listed rate to collapse at? Should it collapse immediately, falling in over a single 6 second round? Should it not collapse at all? Or should we not worry because Pathfinder doesn't have rules for natural earthquakes, so it's impossible? Or can the GM extrapolate from the earthquake spell and go from there?
There are literally endless situations not covered by the rules, or different interpretations as different rules collide. The GM is a human being sitting at the end of the table who can make spur-of-the-moment calls about what happens. That's what separates a tabletop game from a video game - the ability to make those human calls.
At the end of the day, if you can't trust the GM to make calls about these various rules interacting, it's time to walk away from the game. Because it isn't going to stop - the rules provide a really solid framework, but they only go so far in a game of imagination!
I think the OP's initial concern was over some rule calls. But the progression of the discussion seems to indicate that he feels his GM is cutting the corners the group had initially agreed upon. A breach of trust so to speak, whether intentional or accidental.
"Yeah, we're playing Pathfinder.....wait a minute! This is D&D!"
<shrug>
Yes, Elbedor is very accurate, and my rules questions so far have been answered. It is indeed a mix of rules and advice, but I'm not actually looking for that advice, rather just added in that element.
The guy had the 3.5 book open while giving me the item, so please, trust me trusting the gm. I've followed the gm and his craziness plenty, so this isn't.an issue. The group's most irresponsible and controversial session was the gm having npc'd urge us to go to a sunken ship that was capsized at the start of the game. We were level 2 with ABSOLUTELY NO EQUIPMENT, and ghosts await us pretty deep in the water who deal 3d6 damage. Instead ko and almost death for one our members, and I think he backs off when the group is literally shouting things like, "INCORPOREAL UNDERWATER ENCOUNTER?! ARE YOU INSANE?!" but to this day defends what he did with stating it was perfectly safe... Not an issue of "you don't have to fight/go everywhere" advice too, for the record, so please, none of that.
@chev, regardless if you're serious or joking, I laughed pretty hard.
To the rational minded people, I thank you considerate understanding and defending my intent. To those who see things the other way, I offer you thus declaration. I am more than aware that as a free thinking human being, that I exist in the realm of possibility to remove myself from things I deem undesirable.If at all anyone feels it necessary to ever tell me this generic overused advice then please, attempt remember my name on the boards in order to remember to perhaps save it on someone else. If you're unsure you're not remembering the correct person, and feel you're going to pass up enlightening someone for the first time ever with this insight, please, with your doubt, use the search forum feature to search this exact declaration and feel assured that I'm aware of this great advice. To better help this search I'll enter the keyword "dragondiscomachine" to help you.
If I have more questions, then I will be sure to ask. I've not been discouraged from using the forums, and I'll continue to follow this.